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Liffey Likes
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 07, 2019 11:03 am

It would be a disservice to Kildare football to simply look for a change in personnel of management and county board officials. Yes, having the correct management team is crucial but a much bigger shake up is needed. Putting in different faces on county board and doing same thing is pointless. For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
1. Analytical review of what Dublin does through all age groups. It's not good enough to simply say we don't have the money. Perhaps we can afford certain elements of what Dublin do.
2. In particular study and replicate what Dublin do from minor and U20 level in order to develop squad's and players for the 4 years or so while they are in limbo land until they are ready for senior.
3. Study, replicate where possible the Dublin methods of S&C, coaching, recovery methods, injury management, diet, phycology, lifestyle, literally fecking everything they do at senior level. In fact try improve on their methods.
4. Utilise Club Kildare to support the teams and not just as a tool for funding St Conleths. When the supporters club was set up almost 30 years ago they aimed high, they got Micko in who demanded high levels of player welfare, a doctor and physio was brought on board and players were fed after training which didn't happen in many counties before that time. Each player at senior and U20 was sorted with employment. If Kildare supporters understand what is required & see progress and where funding is going they will put their hands in their pockets.
5. Our county board should start demanding parity in funding and other issues and be far more vocal about it.

We should be demanding our club delegates to ask such questions of county board, I am not concerned who the personalities are on the county board are but we need to move with times to try catch up on Dublin. It's not good enough that we can regularly beat Dublin at underage but are constantly 10 to 20 ponts off them at senior level. We can't let another group of underage Leinster winners fall away.
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Badger85
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 07, 2019 7:12 pm

We’re out performing Dublin at underage for the best part of 7/8 years now.
It’s the next step that’s the problem. The fact that we’re beatinh them so regularly underage dispels the theory that it’s their underage system that has them head and shoulders above everyone else.
It’s the next step. And that’s where the money comes in. What is the massive change in circumstances that pushes them so far ahead at senior level? Money.
Money pays for the best S&C coaches available. Money pays for the best physios available. Money ensures every member of the senior set up in Dublin has “a job”.
Putting it simply, what’s the difference? They’re professional.
Back to us.
A massive overhaul is needed in the county board and that does start with clubs sending forward delegates who aren’t nodding dogs. Time for us to be a thorn in the side of the GAA. Call out the inequalities at ever opportunity, bring motions addressing the funding issues and the home advantage issues. Be a torch barer for other counties who’ll follow our lead. We’ve shown already that when GAA hq are called out on their bullshit (Newbridge or nowhere) you can win.
But that needs the right people willing to fight.
I’ve always had an issue with club Kildare and the membership fees. Other counties do a basic membership of circa 50/100 quid. This is far more reasonable than the current prices. It would bring in more members and therefore more funds. Simple economics, drop the price, causes a rise in membership and therefore a rise in profits. You don’t need to be Adam Smith to know that.
There’s an elitist view to club Kildare at the moment. As if they don’t want your average joe supporter to join. Money is money, and we need as much of it as we can get.
And a scaldy jacket doesn’t cut it anymore.
Media presence.
We’ve a media partner that doesn’t do media 😄
Enough said.
But look at the media coverage mayo or even Meath have. Streaming of club games, underage county games. Our media partner, when they were arsed doing media work basically interviewed Cian O’Neill and left it at that. Pitiful effort.
But most importantly from a senior team point o view is getting the right man. Lots of very good names going around here but I’d love to see Malachy O’Rourke for a number of reasons.
1. He took over Monaghan in division three and brought them to and kept them in division one. That’s serious going and remember, Monaghan have the population of around north kildare and a huge part of that population are elderly if you look at the last census.
2. He instilled organisation, strength of body and mind into those.players. We sorely lack both. We wilt at the first sign of trouble and don’t have any discernible game plan or style.
3. Time we got nasty. I’m not a fan of it, but we need to learn that dark arts. Monaghan had that in abundance. I dong care anymore about how pleasing on the eye I want kildare to be. I wouldn’t care in the slightest if we started beating the big teams 10/8 at this point I just want the win.
O’Rourke would have us doing that, I’ve no doubt. Plus there’s. O internal club politics involved and he won’t care about that either. If you fit the bill for his team and are willing to die on the pitch (or kill 😄) you’re in. If not and you want to live off some unwarranted reputation based on bullshit being spoken around the county for years, you’re out.
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intheback
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 07, 2019 8:21 pm

Why doesn't that minor manager take those players on himself ?

Let's look at the current levels above him.

U20's - going nowhere.

Senior - going nowhere.

Give him a shot. He knows the players as well.
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Caprea
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 07, 2019 9:18 pm

intheback wrote:
Why doesn't that minor manager take those players on himself ?

Let's look at the current levels above him.

U20's - going nowhere.

Senior - going nowhere.

Give him a shot. He knows the players as well.

I’m sure this coach will continue up the grades with this team if he wants to. That’s normally how it works.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 07, 2019 10:47 pm

I have no doubt that Colin Ward is going to be in demand now, even at senior club level in the county, so it will be a big ask for him to commit to Kildare underage teams for the next 4/5 years, highly unlikely I would think.

If he takes the u/20 role it would be a least 2/3 years before any of yesterday minors would be ready to step up to that grade for example.

It's also a good age that these lads are at with very few distractions, that will change over the next couple of years with college/work etc plus probably increased club commitments .
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fatherted
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 12:46 am

We're the dominant county at minor for the last number of years in Lenister so our structures are very good in identifying and developing players up to minor who have no inferiority complex around any team they face. They are dogged tough tackling and are unearthing plenty of scoring forwards.

When we make the step up to senior we seem to lose that intensity. We don't need to replicate the Dublin structures we just need people involved ar senior level to develop these talents further and integrate them into the senior setup. Its beyond funny that the player of the year last year at U20 is only playing bit parts of games in senior this year.

Ar minor this last 8 or 10 years are the most successful we've ever seen in a 10 year period. We cant let this go to waste. The players are there
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 1:55 am

At underage, club & schools over the past decade, definitely, 100 percent all the vital signs point to a Div 1 county.

Don’t forget, unlike counties in other provinces, we are competing next door with - literally - the most well-resourced underage set-up in the history of the GAA.

Unfortunately at senior level, counties can in all the other provinces can win titles from Div 2, Jesus Cork nearly did it from Div 3 this year.

Because we’re with Dublin, we can’t even think about winning anything until we become a fixture in Div 1. That has the be the short-term goal - until we do that, results like we saw against Tyrone & Dublin this year will be how our summer ends.

We have so much improving to do at senior level it’s not funny. If we take out 2017 & the second half of last year, our senior performances post McGeeney have been shocking, dismal - disgraceful in some instances.

It’s time for CON to move on - he has left in reasonable shape in Div 2 - and the next appointment is such a vital one.
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Caprea
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 2:23 am

fatherted wrote:

Ar minor this last 8 or 10 years are the most successful we've ever seen in a 10 year period. We cant let this go to waste. The players are there

The forwards are there. The defenders are not.
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fatherted
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 4:54 am

To a point I'd agree Caprea. I think we have a soft centre through the middle and I'd like to see players coming through at CB and FB to challenge. Other than those positions we have options.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 8:29 pm

Its crazy when i was growing up we had no forwards and great defenders...…. now we have some great attacking options..... in my opinion the balance is workrate anyhow... a team can be built to play a style around 2-3 scoring forwards which we have don't need to have the best or most skillful players but the dedicated, committed and die hard players that will work like animals for the team....
Manager or whoever that person is needs to be thinking like this when they are watching this years club championship and the mindset of the players.....
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Cassanata
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 8:40 pm

Caprea wrote:


The forwards are there. The defenders are not.

I'm living in Cork and have no idea about the development squads at the moment and obviously everyone there is doing a terrific job. On the lack of defenders I wonder how much of it is based on the players being picked to enter the development squads. It is always easy to identify the player who can run the length of the pitch and stick it over the bar or pick out a great pass.

It is harder to identify the player who is like a piece of sh** stuck to your shoe who just won't leave you alone and give you an inch of space. I've seen it so many times that the player who is midfield for the club is corner back for the county.

I don't mean that as a complaint at all as I have no idea on what positions any of the players play for their clubs but just what I have seen happen so many times before.
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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeMon Jul 08, 2019 11:08 pm

Surely though , its easier to coach someone to be a top class defender as opposed to a forward ....

A lot of the attacking skills are "raw talent" (hate that phrase but hopefully you know what i mean) compared to dogged defending, reading players and plays.

Massively different skills of course but for someone coming into the set up, id be much happier to have it the way we do compared to the other way around.

Thats why its so bloody frustrating at times as many of the problems we have APPEAR to be fixable !! But cycle after cycle suggests otherwise perhaps
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moatesports
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2019 5:23 am

i think its simple give job to glen , get davy on board as no 2 , get johney in as a coach as well , then when time comes promote davy to top job and it is very like what donegal did a few years ago
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http://moatesports.ie
Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 09, 2019 5:28 am

Moate that idea has been floated here recently - I do like the sound of it. As I’ve said, pretty much everything you’d want in a set-up. Hopefully something county board will give serious thought to.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 2:09 am

At this stage i think we need a tried and trusted and successful intercounty manager, if Kildare are going to look for a new manager, i am hearing all sorts that Alan Flynn was promised the job when CON left at the end of his 'contract'.
A lot of people talking about Davy Burke but not sure i remember an outcry for Brendan Hackett to get the job a few years ago so leave the man be and let him cut his teeth for a few years and see how that goes i think for his own development he should of stayed with the 20's but not sure what the politics were or was Sarsfields offer too good to turn down.
So to me we need to do this right for the next 3 years minimum and that involves removing some of the celebrity mindset that looks like its there so like Pat Gilroy started in Dublin by increasing the work rate etc.
I am punting for the likes of Malachy O'Rourke and lets see what kind of players are actually committed to the requirements to be a top level player and get rid of this attitude that Kildare are too good and need to play a certain style of football because as others have eluded to this has got us a lot of National Leagues, Leinster Championships and All-Irelands over the years...….
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 4:50 am

Interesting reading the Interview with Colin Ward in the Nationalist this evening. He went full Micko on the minors, brought the lads out to the Curragh and ran them for 6 weeks. The lads who were up for the battle and wanted to play for Kildare pushed themselves and made it those that didn't don't have a Leinster medal.

No surprise then when you see them play that they are all heart and fight, never give up and a strong bond pushing each other on.

I think our seniors could do with a bit of that. See who has got the fight in them. Weed the half arsed lads out. Only fighters wanted.
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 5:51 am

One hundred percent Rex - these boys badly a need a hard-ass drill instructor type to go in there and tell a f****g few home truths.

Ward's sort of attitude sorely missing in senior set-up these last few years. Burke had it last year as well - you fought and tackled like demons from the forwards back, and if you didn't, better line up a few good boxsets to watch at home.

Too many lads on easy street at present.
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white boy
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 9:49 am

What's the story with C o n, is he taking the piss out of us. Do not know, what he meeting the C.B for, is it to hand back the keys. The Game is up with him, he should leave A.s.a.p and let us move on, he not winning any friends out of this. He knows the is no way back for him, does he want the C.B to sack him ? Don't know what to be got out of carrying on like this. I have spoken to lots of people in Kildare GAA fans in last few days A lot of them,are pissed off with his carry on since the match .Do the decent thing and just step down and let us get on with getting a new manager.
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Snowwhite
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 11:10 pm

white boy wrote:
What's the story with C o n, is he taking the piss out of us. Do not know, what he meeting the C.B for, is  it to hand back the keys. The Game is up with him, he should leave A.s.a.p and let us move on, he not winning any friends out of this. He knows the is no way back for him, does he want the C.B to sack him ? Don't know what to be got out of carrying on like this. I have spoken to lots of people in Kildare GAA fans  in last few days A lot  of them,are pissed off with his carry on since the match .Do the decent  thing and just step down and let us get on with getting a new manager.


Mmmmm Whiteboy, think you are on the wrong forum here... This is GAA not soccer so talk of sacking a manager are somewhat misplaced....
Besides, i think you are being unreasonable, it is only 10 days since they lost, i think it is reasonable to give the team and manager a couple of weeks to sort themselves out and decide where to go to next. Have no idea what "carry on" you are referring to as he has been v low profile since the match, think you need to step away from the keyboard and give them a break.... No-one goes out to lose matches, this is an amateur sport so lets keep that in mind.
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Badger85
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 11:23 pm

My only worry about a long gap between con leaving (if he does) and the appointment of a new manager is that the club championships are starting in a number of weeks. The new manager should be in place in order for players to showcase their skills.
Unfortunately if this doesn’t happen, it’ll go further to proving that there is a set panel in Kildare, it’s harder to get onto it than off of it and bad performances will have no effect on your place.
Secondly, a number of counties will be searching for new managers in the coming weeks and months. I’m thinking Galway, possibly Tyrone, should Harte step aside, Cork and there are huge grumblings in Kerry about Keane.
The market will be full. We don’t want to be caught out if it’s a case that the County board are looking at an outside manager.
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Snowwhite
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 10, 2019 11:42 pm

Badger85 wrote:
My only worry about a long gap between con leaving (if he does) and the appointment of a new manager is that the club championships are starting in a number of weeks. The new manager should be in place in order for players to showcase their skills.
Unfortunately if this doesn’t happen, it’ll go further to proving that there is a set panel in Kildare, it’s harder to get onto it than off of it and bad performances will have no effect on your place.
Secondly, a number of counties will be searching for new managers in the coming weeks and months. I’m thinking Galway, possibly Tyrone, should Harte step aside, Cork and there are huge grumblings in Kerry about Keane.
The market will be full. We don’t want to be caught out if it’s a case that the County board are looking at an outside manager.

Sure, i agree with you but i really don´t think that this will be drawn out, I just think that we need to be a bit respectful and give people reasonable space. In any case, as someone here recently said, any possible future managers with Kildare on their radar would be going to the matches anyway and will have a fair idea of what is going on at Club level.
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white boy
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2019 12:13 am

So Snow white, you think C O N Has a future with kildare as Manager wither it takes 10days or 50 days it's still going to be at the same result it's over for him he done his best the country board last week tried to nudge him along by leaking to kfm and say he was stepping down which he denied himself it's false is he having a press conference to say he's sanding down. M O` Rourke on the other had won 2 ulster titles and within a kick of a ball in the all Ireland final with an ageing Monaghan team spent 10 mins after the match in the dressing room with the players and with a tv interview after the game saying he's stepping down as Manager. Spot the
difference? That's my point.
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Snowwhite
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2019 12:22 am

white boy wrote:
So Snow white, you think C O N Has a future with kildare as Manager wither it takes 10days or 50 days it's still going to be at the same result it's over for him he done his best  the country board last week tried to nudge him along by leaking to  kfm and say he was stepping  down which he denied himself it's false is he having a press conference to say he's sanding down. M O` Rourke on the other had won 2 ulster titles and within a kick of a ball in the all Ireland final with an ageing Monaghan team spent 10 mins after the match in the dressing room with the players and with a tv interview after the game saying he's stepping down as Manager.  Spot the
difference? That's my point.

Each to their own - each manager has their way of doing things...
So, the CB leaked to KFM that he was stepping down? Where do you get your information from? C O´N never denied he is stepping down, he just said that he had not made a final decision....
Simple as....
I believe he will step down in any case... not that it matters what i think...
It would be reasonable and correct that we all wish him the best of luck as i am sure he will have a future elsewhere...
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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2019 10:03 pm

If we are getting a new manager we need them in asap. With the championship starting again it's only right they are there to look at the games.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Where to next?    Where to next?  - Page 5 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2019 2:31 am

Right lets assume CO'N leaving who are people punting for so name only no long explanations
1. Manager 2. Coach 3. Selector 4. Selector
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