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 Kildare v Clare

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Kildare98
OutTheGap
Rex
murof
tomoneillandhissisteranne
TommyKeegan
bite the pillow
Ohtoohtobe
Curraghplains
lilysavage
lilliesabu
Club fan
jj
intheback
shoutitout
Dinny Breen
Cassanata
kevhog88
Shergar
micky murphy
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Taibi
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learmus
John_R
Highball
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 12:53 am

Everyone knows who I am, why don't you tell us your real name? Go on? I'll wait here as you ignore that or come back with more abuse to avoid what's been asked. Says it all.

I don't blame you to be honest given the stuff out there but, as I say, I'm here to talk about O'Connor, and not explain issues I've written about in my career that clearly go above your head or in some sorry cases you might actually condone. Apologies to rest of forum, started this chat yesterday by saying I respect the views of posters on here but I feel this is going south, sadly some want to make it personal. Next time I'm home Dinny why don't you come over and introduce yourself but as for this, I'm here to talk Kildare.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 1:06 am

Mate there's a time and a place, questioning Jack O'Connor after two league games, one in January is not that time. I am going to leave it at that. I might might take you up on that offer, I am quite sociable after all.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 1:17 am

Number of points. I offered my opinion that this is going to be a symptom of a disease and that isn't solely based on two games, rather from what I've heard from those in the know before this and their belief he may be past it at this level and that they'd have concerns tactically and around in-game management. I'm merely asking from what people have seen if they get the sense that is correct.

Also, it may just be two league games but there's no time to waste when the league is your main concern, when promotion is vital, and when a poor start could see the summer in a B championship. In terms of it being too soon, I also believe when you pay someone serious benefits, that means they don't get the same leeway and bedding in period. Accountability goes up when the contract goes up.
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Curraghplains
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 1:41 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
Everyone knows who I am, why don't you tell us your real name? Go on? I'll wait here as you ignore that or come back with more abuse to avoid what's been asked. Says it all.

I don't blame you to be honest given the stuff out there but, as I say, I'm here to talk about O'Connor, and not explain issues I've written about in my career that clearly go above your head or in some sorry cases you might actually condone. Apologies to rest of forum, started this chat yesterday by saying I respect the views of posters on here but I feel this is going south, sadly some want to make it personal. Next time I'm home Dinny why don't you come over and introduce yourself but as for this, I'm here to talk Kildare.
. There no fight in experience players minute the chip are down
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shoutitout
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 2:29 am

Few points on this, some people are giving opinions on the game but asking others what their's is as they were not at it. Base your opinion on what you have seen not what somebody else tells you or worse what you think might have happened.

Leaving how good or bad we might play over the next 5 games out of this would we be better staying in Div 2 next year? Before everyone says we would be better in Div 1, and any other year I would probably agree with them, but with our home grounds being done up next year (hopefully) we wont have a home pitch. Whatever hope we have of being let move a Div 2 game to somewhere else in the County we will most certainly not be let move a Div 1 game. That leaves the most likely option of playing our home games in Croke Park with double headers with the Dubs............sorry but no thanks.

We started the match yesterday with Kelly playing in front of Dan and Jack. He was our option to kick to quick out of defence and then he kicked in some nice ball to the two man full forward line. This was working nicely but we stopped doing it, no idea why. JOC made the right call in pulling P.Kelly, not his day and the ref was on his case, past managers may have left him on. Half way through the second half there was a case to pull both Cribbin and Brophy as both were close to being sent to the line. JOC pulled Cribbin only, probably because Brophy had scored two lovely points but he let everyone down by being stupid.

Anyone that knows me has heard me say a thousand times, these Kildare players are brain dead. That is not meant as a personal insult but their reset button in their heads is to waste good ball and give away soft frees. It is going to take a lot of coaching to reset that button, much more than a few weeks anyway. Players don't train to play poorly. Managers don't manage so they can be beat but this is Kildare and we love doing both.

I for one will be in Armagh on Saturday night and not because I expect the team to win or to even play well but because its our team and they will always get my support. Yes some Kildare supporters are brain dead also but hey what else would you be doing........
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intheback
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 3:00 am

Division 2 is a different planet from Division 1. Whoever goes up will be coming straight back down.

League does not lie. Kildare are in Div 2 for reason, a good team but a top tier one ? Certainly not.

Daniel Flynn is Kildare's only real world class player.

Very bad result with Brennan missing for Clare.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 4:02 am

The ambition here is mighty....
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 4:32 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
The ambition here is mighty....

Is it lack of ambition or an understanding of where we actually are at the moment though? I would lean towards the latter I think.
It’s becoming clearer and clearer that we simply don’t have the talent to compete at top level . I find that hard to say as I was very enthusiastic about our success at underage in recent years but for whatever reason it’s simply not translating across and that certainly can’t be pinned on current management. We can dissect everything as much as we want, and that’s normal and fine, but do we have the talent?
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white boy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 5:33 am

People said that about Donegal when Jim Mc Guinness was given the job, my friend from Donegal,and look at what he done with them , very same panel bar 3 or 4 Lads that were not able to stay with the intense training. I have no problem with the Magamenent very early the need time , by end of league or early championship, if you don't see improvement then you can call them out. Little worry for me is that Padraigh Joyce went into the Galway job later 2 weeks later after we strated training , told people the way he wanted to play and already you can see improvement in them. But Lads I am quite happy to wait and see until end of league it mite take time with our Lads .One thing about yesterday game is, that now the know the problems, and you are starting with ,1 work rate must go way up , Intense tackling, Movement of the ball make space, making them long runs and scoring, and lots more. This is how the good coaches get it right on the training Ground. You need to cut loose the Lads that won't do for you or are not able to do it , and bring in Lads that will try and do it .As McGuinness said the were better footballers in Donegal, but the were not my type of players.
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 6:58 am

Couldn’t disagree with any of that really white boy but the proof will be in the pudding this year. Last chance saloon for a good few of these players to prove they have the heart and fight to step up, many will say that they’ve had enough chances and that’s fair enough too.
Personally didn’t see us getting promoted easily from Division 2 and that’s certainly not going to be the case based on recent performances . I wouldn’t be throwing the towel in either having said all that but I think there is some perspective needed in terms of how good we actually are. We can demand performances all we like but if players are not there to back it up well where do you go
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 8:42 am

White boy the majority of the doneagal panel won national league in 2008 save for the u21s that McGuinness brought to All Ireland final In 2010. He had footballers to work with.
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Club fan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 9:16 am

Talk about the team throwing in the towel when it gets tough. Some lads are giving up after 2 games and one of them a win.🤣not a great performance on sunday by any stretch of the imagination but im sure the management are still learning about the players and seeing for themselves what works and what doesnt.
Hopefully we will see a steady rate of improvement throughout the league that will set us up for a decent championship. We all need to be realistic too lads. We have slipped out of the top 8. A move in that direction would be progression.
Id be inclined to sit on the fence for 7 or 8 games , if theres no improvement then judgements can be made. Until then ill reserve judgement.
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lilliesabu
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:32 am

Club Fan wrote
“Id be inclined to sit on the fence for 7 or 8 games , if theres no improvement then judgements can be made. Until then I’ll reserve judgement.”
I agree Club Fan. The season can’t be defined by two matches. A number of players need to buy in, increase their intensity and vastly up their work rate. If not they will need to be replaced by players who are willing to do so. Hopefully yesterday was the wake call needed.
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bite the pillow
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:34 am

Bullet points on Ennis..
---On a personal note : W-End great craic as expected and team stayed in our hotel (Woodstock).
---On an alcohol note : Plenty of Guinness in "Old Ground" and "Nora Culligan's"...thanks Papabear !!!
---On a WTF note : Anyone see the 4 hen party girls...3 nuns & Michael D ?
---On a weather note : I know it's February but that feckin rain !
---On a religious note : I didn't make mass.
---On a football note : Paddy was our m.o.m up to red card...terrible foul to make when on yellow and
a tick !
---On a realistic note : We are, and have been for ages, a Div 2 team...it is what it is.
---On a hopeful note : Promotion still a possibility.
To sum up...I honestly think our best scenario would be to allow Jack sort out the Team for this season
and next. Aim for promotion at end of his 2nd year and when we have a proper home
ground sorted out. We are a million miles away from Dublin, Kerry, Donegal etc at the
moment. After 50 years of following the "Lillies" i've learned not to get carried away with
a few good results and not to get too down after more than a few bad ones.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 7:01 pm

Good to finally see some reason on here. Nothing wrong with ambition but unrealistic expectation is what feeds the hysterical post match reaction. We were an average division 2 team last year and probably lucky to have met Cork early on. We regressed since 2017 and 2018. The manager needs time and by time thats not 2 league games for Jaysus sake. He has given several lads a chance and we are bringing back key men like Paul Cribbin, Dan Flynn and Johnny Byrne who have been away from intercounty for over a year. In Geezers 1st Championship game we lost tamely to Wicklow in Croke Park. One of our worst Championship performances ever. Perhaps the worst. The following year we were flying and again the year after that. Hold off on the hysteria until 2021. Rome wasnt built after 2 league games.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 8:46 pm

Fair enough but no one is saying we aren't a million miles off Dublin but a year ago we were pushing for promotion, go out and spend a fortune to make the next step and suddenly it's a shrug that we're just average Division Two team. That seems odd to me. Seems the biggest shift with the managerial change is leeway given around what's expected.
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Curraghplains
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 9:06 pm

David Coldrick is referee for Saturday in Armagh
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 9:12 pm

I know the ability that’s in this squad & I’m not giving them or management a free pass on this one.

Was pointed out in Irish Times among other places last year, but all of the vital signs in Kildare point to a Div 1 county: underage provincial titles, an All Ireland, a provincial club title.

Meath - who we have spent the past 10 years inflicting serial humiliations I’m at underage - have none of those things and edged us last year. Ditto Laois this season.

Brian Lacey - no doubt with his Tipp hurling hat on - said a while back that Kildare fans should be more demanding, not less & he’s right.

Anyway, so utterly sickened still that I’ll be avoiding GAA related activities for rest of week. See you all after Saturday night, when no doubt we’ll have claimed a moral victory & be building for 2030.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:17 pm

I don’t understand the “another year in division two would suit us” mentality ... a lot of our best players are moving well into their late 20s, they were in Div 1 in 2018, why the desire to wait until 2022 when some of them will be past their peak?
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:23 pm

Exactly, in 2022 the 2010 minors/2013 U21s will be around 30, by the time they get the necessary two years in Div 1, they'll be 32, it'll be time for them to be phased out and build a new team!!
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tomoneillandhissisteranne
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:28 pm

shoutitout wrote:
these Kildare players are brain dead. That is not meant as a personal insult ........

In the midst of the mayhem, Shoutitout, you gave me a good laugh Very Happy
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:42 pm

Yes meant to knowledge that line as well – brilliant.
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OutTheGap
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 10:57 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
I don’t understand the “another year in division two would suit us” mentality ... a lot of our best players are moving well into their late 20s, they were in Div 1 in 2018, why the desire to wait until 2022 when some of them will be past their peak?

I think it's more that people want to see us improve significantly before we can think about playing in Division 1. If we were to somehow sneak promotion this year playing like we are currently, then we'd be totally out of our depth. We won't have any home games in St Conleths next year either.

Based on our performances to date and the way the league is shaping up, there's as much chance of us playing in Div 3 next year as Div 1.
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Kildare98
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 11:20 pm

Apparent from under-achievement, the other thing we excel at in Kildare is excuses... The ref was dodgy, conditions weren't favourable, we need another year...

Clare were missing their two best players. Here's what they did: knuckle down and get a result. Didn't whinge and look to blame external factors.

Can someone tell me why Mayo annually have half their squad travelling across the country in the depths of winter – the half that aren't injured after having Dublin hanging by their fingertips the previous autumn – and yet they've been a Div 1 team for the last 20 years.

I'm telling you, that is a more legitimate excuse than the crap up we offer up – they don't get to do ANY proper tactical work or full squad sessions in spring.

And do you know what? They maintain their Div 1 status year after year because they are a bunch of warriors with unconquerable pride.

We meanwhile blame the ref for losing to severely understrength Clare. Pathetic.
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bite the pillow
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Clare   Kildare v Clare - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 11:24 pm

JohnnyC wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
I don’t understand the “another year in division two would suit us” mentality ... a lot of our best players are moving well into their late 20s, they were in Div 1 in 2018, why the desire to wait until 2022 when some of them will be past their peak?

I think it's more that people want to see us improve significantly before we can think about playing in Division 1. If we were to somehow sneak promotion this year playing like we are currently, then we'd be totally out of our depth. We won't have any home games in St Conleths next year either.

Based on our performances to date and the way the league is shaping up, there's as much chance of us playing in Div 3 next year as Div 1.
Amen to that J.C.
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