Donegals's All Ireland - What can we learn?

Congratulations to Donegal on their All Ireland win. Plucked from relative obscurity by Jim McGuinness to All Ireland winners.

Its not that Donegal have a huge tradition in Football. An All Ireland in 1992, two u21 All Ireland titles back in the 80's.

Some would argue we have a more rich footballing tradition.

What can Kildare take from their success? The hunt for Sam Maguire 2013 has begun in earnest.

Simple really, we don't have a Colm McFadden and a Michael Murphy.

The Donegal full back line was brilliant.

What have we learned is that you can build a winning team from a low base in a couple of years if you have a trusted game plan, a single minded tactically astute manager and a group of players willing to give everything to the cause.

Kildare for me don't have a reliable game plan. It appears a case of on the go thinking. That will only get you so far, but when things are not going right we have noting to rely on. No plan for the players to trust in and stick to.
Secondly, is McGeeney as tactically evolved as needed. He is brilliant at preparation added to motivation and commands total respect but tactics I feel are his weak point and he needs to think long and hard about how we are to set up and play and then stick to it so every player knows his role and what is expected of him so when the shi*t hits the fan they don't panic.

We have it appears a set of players giving it everything, hopefully with a few new recruits we can push on again.

Completely agree Baba we have a decent bunch of players. Certainly 3 years ago we were in a better place than Donegal with both of us broadly having the same bunch of players as we do now.

Taibi McFadden and Murphy were playing the last 3/4/5 years. When Donegal were abysmal.The big difference between now and then is their tactics and conditioning. They absolutely ripped apart the coaching manual on tactics in the GAA the last 2 years.

Last year we were on a par more or less with them. We have based on this year completely regreessed. I'm not sure if McGeeney reads this forum or takes advice from random Internet people but he really needs to take a huge look at our tacticl preparation and our physical conditioning for next year.

They had a mediocre year in Division 1 this year. Everything was geared towards a huge run in the championship. And boy did they deliver. I have nothing but admiration for them and to be honest I'm green with envy looking at them tonight considering we were more or less on a level par with them last.

A big few months for McGeeney between now and Janruary plotting everything for next season.

Just a quick question, are Intercounty teams now allowed to meet up before January now depending on when you where knocked out?

Thanks Fionn, I doubt McGeeney even knows this place exists but if normal supporters can see the issues he must also. The game plan to me is the most important aspect that needs to be fixed. Everything should be automatic and like muscle memory it should just happen without thinking. That's where we fall down badly. When things go wrong the players go back to old habits. With a strict tactic to adhere to that option gets taken away.

The other area that needs looking at is how the team is physically prepared. You need speed and stamina now not body builders. I hope Julie Davis takes adjusts accordingly.

What Donegal's win does is gives teams belief that you can reach the top even though in previous years you may have been poor.

yes the rule has changed when a county team

exit championship in june back training november 15
exit championship in july back training december 1
exit championship in august back training december 8
exit championsip in september back in training december 29


no triaining allowed between 21 to 28 december

Thanking you.

One thing i like about McGuinness is how he convinced players he thought were important,to commit to another year or more.In some cases he rang them and called to their houses constantly trying to show them how they'd fit into the setup and how important they were to him and the team.

I feel we can learn from donegal here as we seem to be far too willing to let lads go when they dont commit fully instead of sorting out problems and getting them to commit fully again.

The most recent case being sean hurley,a special talent who has amazing potential but obviously had those issues last year.I dont know the ins and outs of it but i always felt it could have been handled better and we would see him back in white this year.
I'll put it this way,if i was mcgeeney i would be up at his house everyday this week trying to convince him to stay here instead of oz.Work out any committment issues betwwen the two of them.If he stil wants to go so be it.

Hes only one player though, theres been a few of them over last few years who if mcguinness was in charge wouldnt have let go off the panel without a fight.2 Cribbins,david lyons, david white.....

The game is FUBAR!

Ahh Jimmy wtf, lost all credibility, dignified silence......

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/furious-mcguinness-lets-rip-over-books-untruths-and-vile-articles-3239541.html

I'm not so sure stonecold. A lot of these journalists write some very cutting articles when it suits them, they don't sit there at their laptop and consider players and managers families when they are slicing and dicing. They write whatever they think will get the most attention. Look at some of the stuff written about Kildare and Johnston this year. Stuff that went well beyond the game and into personal lives. It didn't bother them who they hurt just as long as the story kept running.

If we were in the unlikely position of ever winning the All Ireland then I would have no issue with McGeeney telling a few of them to get to f*ck. They write what they like with impunity but when some one like McGuinnes has a go back they all throw a temper tantrum and call foul. Yet none of them backed up their colleague on the day, instead they watched him leave then all rushed to twitter and cried like little girls. I'm no fan of McGuinnes but I would agree with him in this instance.

Baba O' Reily wrote:

I'm not so sure stonecold. A lot of these journalists write some very cutting articles when it suits them, they don't sit there at their laptop and consider players and managers families when they are slicing and dicing. They write whatever they think will get the most attention. Look at some of the stuff written about Kildare and Johnston this year. Stuff that went well beyond the game and into personal lives. It didn't bother them who they hurt just as long as the story kept running.

If we were in the unlikely position of ever winning the All Ireland then I would have no issue with McGeeney telling a few of them to get to f*ck. They write what they like with impunity but when some one like McGuinnes has a go back they all throw a temper tantrum and call foul. Yet none of them backed up their colleague on the day, instead they watched him leave then all rushed to twitter and cried like little girls. I'm no fan of McGuinnes but I would agree with him in this instance.

Agree 100%, top post!

What has any journo written about Jim thats wasn't accurate ?

I'm not awre of anything nor has McG pointed to a single word.

OK Bogue included what Cassidy addmitted of the not very sporting part of the 2011 Donegal so does McG want journos to ignore and now that he's won he is taking out his anger. Poor show Jimmy. Dont think thats somethhing Kildare want to learn from him !!!

The running support play : now that could be something Kildare can work on to improve.

If Jimmy McGuinness was that upset about it the libel laws in Ireland are there for that particular reason, plus our libel laws are probably the most draconian in Europe so if he had a case it would be easily won. To wait 10 months after the biggest day in your county for 20 years to exact his revenge is petty and he should be above all that. He has just shown he is no better than the journalist and a bitter man.

What I'd like to know is what exactly these 'untruths' are. He went on about them without giving an example. He should offer some proof - otherwise he's the one slandering Declan Bogue. We don't have the full facts on this one so it's impossible to know who's right. Having said that, anyone I've talked to who's read the book say it's completely harmless. From the way McGuinness went on, you'd think he'd been accused of murder.

I have to say while I admire what the man has achieved, it's hard to like him. He showed no grace in victory against us last year, having a cheap pop at McGeeney after. Fortunately Geezer had enough class not to be drawn into it.

I'd love it, LOVE IT, if we beat them.

Lads as i've said before on different threads, whatever is in the sikie of northern players and more so mentors/managers, they all seem to have a chip on their shoulders......they thing that they invented our fair game and that the world and its mother owe them a favour and this includes geezer also, its in their make up but at times its very hard to stomach, especially when they win something and they take the high moral ground.......all IMO of coarse.......

Although I think it is a storm in a tea cup, Jim McGuinness doesn't come out of it looking great. If he had an issue with what was written then he should have taken it up with the journalist in private rather than insisting he be removed from a post All Ireland press conference. Instead of people talking now about Donegal's great win, this episode seems to be the focus of attention which is a shame. I haven't read this book but I understand that it is actually very complimentary of Jim McGuinness?

overthebar wrote:

Lads as i've said before on different threads, whatever is in the sikie of northern players and more so mentors/managers, they all seem to have a chip on their shoulders......they thing that they invented our fair game and that the world and its mother owe them a favour and this includes geezer also, its in their make up but at times its very hard to stomach, especially when they win something and they take the high moral ground.......all IMO of coarse.......

There's certainly an element of siege mentality with the Ulster counties. Some of it is justified given their collective history but they do seem to thrive on this notion that the rest of the country is against them which of course is not true at all. It has crept in with Kildare in recent years too and I don't think it suits us. It's too easy to blame others then when things don't work out rather than looking a bit closer to home - the refs, media, CCCC are all against us rather than simply saying we didn't do enough to win ourselves.

As for what can Kildare take from Donegal's win, it's probably the same as we were thinking last year. We're still not a million miles away from the likes of Donegal, Dublin and Mayo but it's probable that this particular group of Kildare players missed the boat in 2010. We might need a year or two to blood some new players before we can possibly bridge that gap. There's a lot of talk about Donegal's system but Mayo showed at times on Sunday that it can be beaten. There was a great interview with Kieran Donaghy in one of the papers recently and he told of how Kerry lost their shape against Donegal and it was only when they got that shape back that Donegal struggled. Being dragged out of position against Donegal plays right into their hands. You are allowing them to dictate the game on their terms. You have to trust and try and impose your own gameplan and not become too obsessed with what they're doing. That's easier said than done though!!

Agree KK we need to go back to the well and rebuild Mid field has shown up as a huge issue this year as the way Donegal and Mayo and lesser extent Dublin catching clean Ball in midfild is a good launch for attacks - hopefully Cribben, Fogarty, Moolick, Dowling and Brophy get a look in for the League

Two seperate issues here. Firstly in terms of what we can learn, delegation is vital. Most people would have said Donegal and Mayo didn't have the players just two years ago yet here they are because they've had managers like business people who oversee a process and bring in experts into each area rather than assuming they are the expert at everything. What McGuinness has done in two years is particularly astounding as last year he put a system in place while this year added the skills. That Donegal team are so far ahead of the one that pipped up last year, it defies belief. Not to be boring people but if anyone is interested on the link between what both Donegal and Mayo have done and how they have done it... http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-forwardthinking-mcguinness-and-horan-have-turned-old-ruins-into-new-empires-3208230.html .

As for the other issue and this rubbish about good enough for journalists, wish McGeeney would tell them to f**k off etc etc, it's populist drivel. Firstly, journalists are the link to fans when it comes to press conferences and if a manager starts getting so self-righteous that he cannot accept anyone else's opinion, then the fans won't get the story as that manager will handpick a journalist to tell a story that makes him look good rather than the actual story. In terms of McGuinness - and I say this having thought his work as a manager has been remarkable and inspiring - what he did Sunday was a classless act of cheap and petty bullying. I've read that book and he comes across so well in it and it's not the authors fault that Kevin Cassidy agreed to do it. Also, what untruths, it was Cassidy's opinion written in first person, so is McGuinness so power mad that anyone with a slightly differing opinion is a liar in his eyes? And finally on that, Bogue has been at press conferences all year two feet from McGuinness and he waited now to do that in order to humiliate a journalist that hasn't done a thing wrong - thus McGuinness being unable to name a specific. He undermined a guy's ability to earn and questioned his work in front of colleagues for no other reason than ego. If that happened anyone on here in their work, I bet you wouldn't be saying, good enough, f**k them all etc.

Whilst I haven't read the book I agree with your comments Tommy. As I like to say "People who agree with you all the time aren't worth talking to"

TommyKeegan,I wouldn't expect nothing other than one journalist defending another, worse than teachers the lot of you. Sure what what else would you say.
But considering the mileage you got out of Kildare, McGeeney and Johnston this year you can't but defend them. They must have made you a pretty penny. You should be thanking them.
One thing I've noticed about you journalists is that you love to dish it out but hate getting some back. Thin skins it seems.

As for your man he should bless the the day McGuinness called him out as he has gotten far more publicity and you journos love the publicity out of it than he would ever have got if he was ignored.

Jim McGuinness has gone up a lot in my estimation over this, hopefully a few other managers follow suit next year.

As for Kildare 84 years of being nice has really worked for us, it's about time we like some Ulster counties got one of those chips and fix it firmly to our shoulder.

Ah okay, so Kieran McGeeney telling me to go f**k myself next year will solve our All Ireland issues. Logic there. You are full of cliches up there so let me go through them.

"I wouldn't expect nothing other than one journalist defending another, worse than teachers the lot of you" - actually thought the rest of the journalists behaviour when they didn't all walk out was bad form, so expect what you like, but I'm defending one and highly critical and disappointed by others.

"One thing I've noticed about you journalists is that you love to dish it out but hate getting some back." - Don't think that's case, we take a lot, some right, some wrong, but many are easy targets for no real reason and while journalistic comment is sporting, the abuse back is personal a lot of the time. You may not agree but it's not exactly a lucrative industry. Great upsides to it and not complaining, just noting we take a serious amount of crap from anonymous people.

"You journos love the publicity out of it than he would ever have got if he was ignored." - The entire point of my argument is that it shouldn't have happened so of course I'd have preferred if it was ignored.

"Considering the mileage you got out of Kildare, McGeeney and Johnston this year you can't but defend them." - Why would I defend it. It was never personal and this is a hard area to make money in, so when commissioned to write something, you usually say yes. Also, I have been in touch with Seanie and made it very clear this was a purely football matter and he said he appreciated me contacting him and the fact it was never personal so I don't skirt around abusing guys making millions believe it or not, in fact I'd be a great believer in things being done above board and correctly thus my disappointment in McGuinness.

And finally you are completely missing the point with your waffle. The issue here is a guy was stopped from doing his job and borderline slandered for no particular reason. You seem to know a lot, so can you tell me what Bogue did wrong, what was said in the book that deserved a guy being denied work and humiliated? I don't care if it's a tax man, street sweeper, journalist or nurse, that is not on. The fact you think it is makes me think you are either a WUM or a journalist broke your heart. Sorry to everyone else as this is slightly off topic but defending myself and don't like being told I made a fortune over tarnishing someone when that has never once been the case.

Hell, I find I have to agree with Tommy Keegan:

Petty vindictive bullying

Shame on those who stayed !!

One thing about journalists is that they are out there in the open, ie not hiding behind an identity on a forum. Whether you agree or disagree with an opinion you should be at least man enough to debate it. McGuinness was petulant in singling out a journalist who we perceived had disrespected him and his team. Similar to what happened to Pat Spillane, McGuinness took a cheap shot at Bogue and in the process took the focus away from what should have been a celebration of a brilliant All Ireland win.
One positive thing that we can take from the win is that we are not far away from the top, this year aside. We lack one or two players in vital sectors of the field. All the strength and conditioning in the world is not going to compensate for a lack of a settled midfield.