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PostSubject: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 9:01 pm

I see after the opening rounds of the Championship teams who have lost have lost 3/4 players from their panels.

Laois have lost Brendan Quigley, Gary Walsh and Kevin Meaney.

Armagh have lost 4 players in Declan Mckenna, Gavin McPartland, Peter Carragher and Michael Stevenson.

Galway are reported to have lost players also.

Some will say that its not football related, but the timing would show that once the opening round was lost they left the panel.

County Boards for the most part have been paying these lads training expenses since they were back training in January and the players are very happy to receive these payments coupled with GPA grants.

Not to mention free gear, football boots amongst other things.

Should counties expect more from these players, leaving them high and dry in their moment of need.

Are we getting to a stage where contracts will be required, or at least some sort of agreement.

Afterall its the taxpayers money that have funded the GPA grants.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 9:23 pm

I really think this is going to get a whole lot worse not only at county but especially at club level. Can you blame players leaving? After some of the hammerings so far this year they probably fear there county have no chance of doing anything this year. And as for Heisenberg saying the taxpayers pay them the money for grants they deserve every penny they get a couple of hundred euro.

At club level I see teams are finding it hard to field a second teams i'm afraid its the time we are living in and it going to get a whole lot worse.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 9:45 pm

The Laois situation is typical of them. Last year showed great promise and after an opening round defeat their best player heads off on the booze for the summer!!!

I can't even imagine this happening to our panel.They have really bought into what geezer is asking of them and we sometimes take for granted their efforts and commitment. The manager too deserves credit for this . . . hopefully we all get the Leinster we deserve this summer!!
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 10:17 pm

Laois will always be Laois and therefore are only a moment away from self inflicted pain. It happens so often now that it's not even funny any more. You just here the story and shrug your shoulders and think "sure it's laois"

For the rest It's a difficult one. You have to balance the players personal lives with football commitments. However if these teams had won, would they have walked then. I think if you have any inclination of walking in the summer then you should not make yourself available. You are taking a place from another player who would be here.

The thing is it's going to snowball. Once it becomes acceptable to head to America lads who would have been reluctant to do it before will now have no issue going. This will be a major issue in the coming years.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 10:28 pm

steviegenius wrote:
I really think this is going to get a whole lot worse not only at county but especially at club level. Can you blame players leaving? After some of the hammerings so far this year they probably fear there county have no chance of doing anything this year. And as for Heisenberg saying the taxpayers pay them the money for grants they deserve every penny they get a couple of hundred euro.

At club level I see teams are finding it hard to field a second teams i'm afraid its the time we are living in and it going to get a whole lot worse.

I have no problem with them getting the grants steviegenius. You seem to be missing the point here. County Boards run many many fundraisers to keep the County teams on the road and to play player expenses. And for what at the end of the day?

Also what exactly are they getting the GPA grants for? Playing intercounty football over the winter and funding a trip to America for the summer or for playing intercounty football until your county bows out of the championship.

Whether this is Laois/Galway/Armagh it doesn't really matter. As Rex has already said this will become a big issue in the coming years.

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Sam1928
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 10:40 pm

Its an enormous undertaking to commit to a county panel especially for family men and those in full time employment that involves commuting/travelling.

The demands on players is huge. Im amazed more players dont walk to be honest.

For the younger lads the prospect of going to the U.S. or Australia or backpacking around the world while you are still young fit and able has to be a big draw.

Lets be honest this country hasnt had much to offer in the last few years.

You only live once.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Well when Kildare lost to Louth in 2010 did the Kildare panel throw a strop and head off no! Kildare went out in round 1 and went on to be a crossbar away from an all Ireland apperance.

Similarly in 2011 when the farce happened against Dublin it would have been easy to throw in the towel did Kildare no! picked themselves up had to beat laois in laois the week after and meath in Navan not easy and went on to just lose out to Donegal! (controversy)

Credit to the players and Mc Geeney here lads he got them on the high horse again and again and made the quarter finals every year when it could have been easy to walk like these other panels have! I hope they get what the deserve this year for all the commitment = leinster champions 2013. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 11:02 pm

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Ten years ago, the likes of Laois and Westmeath had a serious chance of winning Leinster, now they don't. There is an awful lot more to life than Gaelic football, so in a way you can't blame lads for having second thoughts.

One thing about this current debate around the structure of the championship - I'm not convinced that all of the smaller counties are as a organised as they should be. Offaly, for example, with their tradition and the quality of players they have, should be more competitive, but they have only got their act together within the last year or so under Emmet McDonnell. Also, Westmeath have only been promoted to Division One this year, Laois are still in Division Two... Those counties still have an awful lot of work to do, and they need to put proper structures in place to make sure they remain competitive.

As a previous poster said, you couldn't fault the organisation and commitment under Kieran McGeeney. The players have been a credit to themselves and the county over the past five years.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 11:10 pm

Sam1928 wrote:
Its an enormous undertaking to commit to a county panel especially for family men and those in full time employment that involves commuting/travelling.

The demands on players is huge. Im amazed more players dont walk to be honest.

For the younger lads the prospect of going to the U.S. or Australia or backpacking around the world while you are still young fit and able has to be a big draw.

Lets be honest this country hasnt had much to offer in the last few years.

You only live once.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here.

Yes you only live once. blah blah blah rabble rabble rabble.

Demands on players are big. But so are the rewards. Training "expenses" and I use that term loosely , GPA grants, training gear among other things.

County Boards are in effect investing in players. They organise fundraisers, get sponsorship to keep the show on the road. The provide them with expenses, food after training, gear and provide physio's and conditioning coaches to keep them in top condiiton.

Now I believe its a massive massive kick in the teeth to any County Board and County Panel for panel members to train all year avail of these perks and still be able to pull the plug whenever they feel like it. There is something fundamentally wrong in all of that.

Or is it just me?
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeThu Jun 06, 2013 11:41 pm

Heisenberg wrote:


Demands on players are big. But so are the rewards.


Outside of a handful of counties, they aren't.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 12:05 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:


Outside of a handful of counties, they aren't.

If they weren't with their county they'd prob be with their club doing it for completely nothing, getting no dinner after training and no expenses or gear.

The rewards are big in comparison to the vast majority of GAA players in the country.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 12:46 am

What are the rewards exactly?

Free food? Free gear?...a measly grant?...a bit of mileage?....maybe the chance of a team holiday at the end for a select few counties?

Factor in the time and effort and tell me its financially rewarding to be a county footballer in general.

I dont see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 12:59 am

Have to say I agree with Sam...
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 2:38 am

Sam1928 wrote:
What are the rewards exactly?

Free food? Free gear?...a measly grant?...a bit of mileage?....maybe the chance of a team holiday at the end for a select few counties?

Factor in the time and effort and tell me its financially rewarding to be a county footballer in general.

I dont see it.

There are club players the length and breadth of the country doing it for nothing.

And will continue to do so.

If you think its OK for players to up and go after various county board's investing a lot of time and Money into them throughout a season well then I suppose its more a reflection on you than anything.

The ironic thing about it is that were they not fit and playing at the level they were thanks to the management and coaches at county level there would be no interest from America for their footballing services.
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Sam1928
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 3:07 am

Jaysus.."a reflection on me"???..WTF....I'll let that slide.

Anyway..you say the county boards "invested" in these players...well I say the players invested a hell of a lot more in terms of time, dedication and cost both financially and emotionally into giving their lives over to being a county footballer. They earned the right in many cases to decide whether they want to continue or not.

Some of these players have also been around for a good number of years.

You seem to think the players "owe" their respective counties financially if they decide to leave their panels late in the season.

I dont see it that way. Im not saying the players are correct to do what they do or that I would do similar but they do have the right to make that decision and I wouldnt slate them over it.

Its a testament to Kildare players and Management in general that the majority of our lads have stuck at it after bad results in recent years.

Lets not forget also that there are less local career opportunities for lads in counties like Laois and Offaly..

On a topical note..only 5 or 6 counties have a chance of winning Sam. After that some have long shot chances of provincials. Getting beat year after year without much prospect of silverware has to drain some lads enthusiasm for giving their lives over to the game at this level.

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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 3:36 am

The majority of club players are only doing a fraction of what most county lads will be doing.

The clubs in America are offering silly money for young men to go over to play football for the summer. For lads in their early twenties who have no hope of work here or no ties then it's a very tempting offer.

Perhaps the GAA should look into condensing the championship a bit more and bringing the qualifiers forward a few weeks. I'm sure a lot of players who have lost recently are less likely to hang around if they have a 4 or 5 week break to what they probably think will be another defeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 5:36 am

I would tend to agree with Heisenberg on this one. We had people standing on the roads shaking buckets in this county not so long ago, I'm sure similar goes on in the counties mentioned. These people and their like do a thankless job in trying to raise funds so that the team can have the best of everything and then players decide to up sticks and leave without a second thought.

Inter-county footballers are very well looked after and want for nothing. They incur no financial loss whatsoever, they're fed, clothed and have their travelling expenses plus the GPA grant. They don't drink for a large portion of the year (Hurlotelli excluded) and they don't smoke so if anything they're making money, albeit not a whole lot.

It seems to be rife in Leinster with the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Meath and Laois. Sam, you say you only get one life but you only get one football career too.

I was reading about Gareth Bradshaw the other day, he left the Galway panel after their mauling against Mayo. He was their captain. Couldn't believe it!

Loyalty is at a premium in certain counties but thankfully not in Kildare.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 10:05 am

Was'nt Bradshaw sent off against mayo and is now facing a ban. There is also the fact Galway have not won a qualifier in years and the youth coming through, also he is probably embarrassed at the sending off, and surely other reasons for his departure. It's a bit sweet for people on here to question his loyalty considering the amount of sacrifice he has undoubtedly put in over the last few years of his life. The monetary reward is sfa compared to the hours put in, if you put that much dedication into a profession you'd be well rewarded, free boots seriously Question
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 10:24 am

Kildare had not won Qualifiers for years before Mc Geeney came did they Kildare lads walk away after the loss to wicklow in croke park his first year in charge?
No they went on and put pride back in the in the lillywhite jersey for the first time since Micko kildare got to August football would that have happened if they jumped ship on Mc Geeney no.
dont mean to point the finger out at one particular county but Laois you would think after having a good run in the qualifiers last year they would try stick round and do the same this year.
Thank god the kildare panel are fully dedicated in what we are trying to achieve.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 7:33 pm

I was listening to newstalk last night in relation to this issue and they mentioned that there is some sort of deadline in the US for transfers / sanctions at the moment and it puts pressure on the players to decide whehter to go over. It's not so much that they lost a game and decided to go but that they have to make their minds up soon so the loss probably accelerated it.

A few are talking about the investment put into players by the county board... If you are a county player with no job, so can't afford a car or rent or anything much here, it becomes a no brainer to go somewhere where there is work. I'm sure it's not an easy decision for them but expenses are nothing compared to an actual wage.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 7:40 pm

Just to be clear I dont agree with leaving a panel mid-season. I believe if you start something then you should finish it but I do understand why some players would these days and I wouldnt berate them for it.





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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 7:42 pm

"They don't drink for a large portion of the year (Hurlotelli excluded) and they don't smoke so if anything they're making money, albeit not a whole lot. "

Tiabi what a ridiculus comment to make. Like something off D'unbelievables.

As for Bradshaw he is it would appear just fed up of football. And who could blame him, he has been Galways top player over the last few years and set high standards and others around him have not reached up. what you are seeing this year is a reaction to this. maybe not the best reaction but I dont think his commitment to the Galway cause of all people should be questioned.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 9:00 pm

This is definitely one of the main talking points at the moment...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/triple-blow-for-offalys-back-door-prospects-29324409.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/higgins-lashes-lack-of-commitment-from-laois-players-29324411.html

Whatever about pulling out at the end of the season, I would certainly concede that, yes, not sticking around for the qualifiers is simply bad form, all issues of recompense, benefits etc aside.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 9:12 pm

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
This is definitely one of the main talking points at the moment...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/triple-blow-for-offalys-back-door-prospects-29324409.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/higgins-lashes-lack-of-commitment-from-laois-players-29324411.html

Whatever about pulling out at the end of the season, I would certainly concede that, yes, not sticking around for the qualifiers is simply bad form, all issues of recompense, benefits etc aside.

I seen this one coming down the line.

An earlier poster suggested that it was the deadline in USA for transfers that prompted them to go.

If Laois were facing Wexford this weekend in the Leinster quarter final would they have left. Or if Galway had beaten mayo. These players are like rats off a sinking ship.

As Taibi said earlier Kildare GAA had a fundraiser a few months back and people were shaking buckets outside Mass on a Saturday and Sunday collecting for Kildare GAA. I'd imagine other counties done similar. What a kick in the teeth for those people who raised funds in these counties.
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PostSubject: Re: Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss   Players leaving a Panel after Championship loss Icon_minitimeFri Jun 07, 2013 9:14 pm

Taibi wrote:
Inter-county footballers are very well looked after and want for nothing. They incur no financial loss whatsoever, they're fed, clothed and have their travelling expenses plus the GPA grant. They don't drink for a large portion of the year (Hurlotelli excluded) and they don't smoke so if anything they're making money, albeit not a whole lot.

G'way outta that.

There's no way they're making money out of it. They get fed after training which is completely fair enough given the time they put into it,. They get a few bits of gear to wear to matches so that they look like a team, they hardly get all their clothes out of it. They get fairly meagre mileage. You make it sound like they get all their food covered all the time and all their clothes both for them. They still have to put a roof over their head, a shirt on their back and bread on their table like the rest of us.

And yeah, fair enough they get a grant. However, I doubt that the grant makes up for the lost career progression. It would be hard to see too many being able to put in any more than 40 hours a week to work. When there's overtime to be done, the inter county man has to leave to go training. Or they pick up an injury and miss loads of time in work. Or they're like Leper and take a 3 month leave of absence to concentrate on getting back to full fitness. I wonder what his pay packet looks like at the moment? Hardly making money out of it anyway.

Then as regards drinking or smoking, they're putting their lives on hold for a good chunk of the year, can't go out drinking with their mates and stuff like that. Even if they could, most of their free time is taking up with daily training sessions and recovery.

So they're not making money and they've no free time. It's a flipping huge commitment and I wouldn't knock any unemployed young fella or student going to the States and earning a few bob for a few months.

Having said all that, the fellas who stay put and are loyal to the cause have to be admired.
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