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| | Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. | |
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+7kelf Taibi micky murphy lilysavage Frankel Lily8 SeeTheStars 11 posters | Author | Message |
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SeeTheStars Senior
Posts : 147 Join date : 2010-07-03
| Subject: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:25 pm | |
| The fixtures review committee have rolled out proposals to the clubs for Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Clubs will be voting on proposal at next Co Board Meeting; Main points in italics as follows;
4 Areas looked at. Minors Reserve leagues Under 21 competitions Senior Leagues Calendar
U17s can't play adult in 2017 Minor Spring Leagues Football Leagues(2016) All division to consist of 8 Teams Div 1 Div2 Div3 Div4 Top 2 teams to the Final Start time mid February Day Sunday / Time 12.00
Hurling Leagues Div 1 will have 4 teams 3 games and Finals Div 2 remaining teams Top 2 to Final next 2 in Shield final Start first Monday after clock change. Day Monday / Time 6.30
New Minor Summer League 2016 Hurling and Football
In 2016 no under 17 will be allowed play adult games. Football (2016)Optional aimed at U17 /U 18 Groups of 4 3 games Semi finals top four across groups into cup 2nd teams into shield 3rd team to trophy and 4th team to Medal, See example next Slide Cup, Shield Trophy Medal 5 games Games commence after Leaving cert Saturday at 6.00pm
Hurling Under 17(2016) Starts after the Leaving Cert/ Junior Cert Completion at the end of July Possible day Tuesday 7.00
MINOR FOOTBALL /HURLING Championship
Football (2016) Championship start mid to end of August Final County Final day Number of teams to decided by grading Committee based on league position, Top 6 teams to qualify to the knockout stages. Top 2 to semi next 4 to quarter final Predetermined draws i.e. Semi
Hurling (2016) Championship commence in August Championship to be run over the months Aug and Sept Matches played on alternative Thurs in line with the intermediate championship Final in county Final Day 5 nights required
New U17 Leagues Football Start October 2016 Format small groups Possible Floodlight Competition if pitches are available All games to be finished in Oct / Nov 2016
Reserve Senior Leagues
Re-name Leagues from current format to Reserve League 1 (Old Div 3A), Reserve 2 North, Reserve 2 South, Reserve 3 North Reserve 3 South Leagues will start in April Reserve Leagues 1, 2 north and 2 south to contain 10 teams. Reserve league 3 north and 3 south to contain 9 teams. Reserve leagues 1, 2 north and 2 south to be played on Monday nights. Reserve leagues 3 north and 3 south to be played on Friday nights. Divisions 1, 2 north and 2 south 15 a side. Division 3 north and 3 south 13 a side or 15 by agreement. Clubs name 15 players on their first team as it is at present and 20 players on their second team Junior Hurling will move to Thursday
Kildare Senior Leagues 2017
Proposal is to Increase the number of Division from 3 to 4 for 2017 Div 1 (12 Teams) Div 2 (10 Teams) Div 3 (10 Teams) Div 4 (10 teams )
Division 1 12 teams Each team plays each other once, by which time the teams have all played 11 matches. Each team will have 6/5 home matches. Semi-Finals Top 4 teams will qualify to play in the semi-finals. 1 v 4, 2 v 3. Semi finals venues to be discussed. Relegation Teams finishing 11th and last (12th) automatically get relegated to Division 2.
Divisions 2 & 3 The league season is split into two phases. 10 teams In Phase 1, each team plays each once, by which time the teams have all played 9 matches. The league then splits into a “top 5” and a “bottom 5” (2A & 2B / 3A & 3B) for Phase 2. Division 2A & 2B / 3A & 3B Each team then plays a further 4 matches against the other 4 teams in their section. Points achieved during the first phase of 9 matches are carried forward to the second phase, but the teams only compete within their own sections during Phase 2. Each team will have 4/5 home matches in Phase 1. Final/Promotion/Relegation After Phase 2 Top 2 teams in Section A will get promoted and play in League Final. Bottom 2 teams in Section B get relegated.
Division 4 The league season is split into two phases. Division 4 10 teams In Phase 1, each team plays each once, by which time the teams have all played 9 matches. The league then splits into a “top 5” and a “bottom 5” (4A & 4B) for Phase 2. Division 4A & 4B Each team then plays a further 4 matches against the other 4 teams in their section. Points achieved during the first phase of 9 matches are carried forward to the second phase, but the teams only compete within their own sections during Phase 2. Each team will have 4/5 home matches in Phase 1. Games in Phase 2 will be home or away, opposite to the previous fixture in Phase 1 Final/Promotion After Phase 2 Top 2 teams in Section A will get promoted and play in League Final. Top team in Section B shield has winners of Division 4B No relegation from Division 4B
Kildare Snr Leagues 2016 Method for Transition from 2016 to 2017 To realign the current format to the proposed new format for 2017, it is proposed that the fairest way to do this is to use the final league positions in the coming 2016 league season as the basis for re-assignment. In order to ensure that the teams competing in Division 2 have incentive for promotion to the new Division 1, it is proposed that a playoff will be held between 1st & 2nd teams in Division 2 and the 11th & 12th teams in Division 1. In order for teams to have an incentive competing in Div3 in 2016 for promotion to the new Div 2 it is proposed that a playoff will be held between 1st & 2nd teams in Division 3 and the 15th & 16th teams in Division 2. Please note that Losers will go to Div 4. Aldridge Cup, Keogh Cup and Dowling Cups will remain
Advantages of New Format By making the divisions smaller, the new format will ensure meaningful & competitive matches right throughout the competition from the first to the last game. The concept of being safe or having nothing to play for should no longer be a factor. This in turn should improve the standard and competitiveness of football in Kildare, firstly in club football and will have a subsequent knock-on effect for county teams. Whilst reducing the league sizes the reduced number of games for each team has been kept to a minimum. As well as this, there should now be less congestion on the fixture schedule. Introduction of semi-finals and revised relegation format ensures that all teams will have something to play for until the last league game. With the introduction of an extra division there is another trophy up for grabs with more teams competing for silverware. With the introduction of Division 4 and subsequent Division 4A, it provides incentive for first teams not currently competing in Senior Football Leagues to compete and will aid their transition to the leagues. NOTE: One club has already requested to do so and is included in this proposal. Leagues will finish at the end of July and different weekends may be free i.e. Bank Holidays
Under 21 Football 2016 Championship to commence in October where possible. Grades to take part, A, B, C and D. 8 teams to take part in each grade depending on amount of entries. Open draw in each grade in a straight knockout competition. No shield competition
This is copy and paste from a slide pack sent out today. It bears consideration as it means senior leagues becomes very competitive with less meaningless games. If you have strong opinions for or against let your club committee know, they will be voting to either accept/reject the proposals.
Well done to the review committee for being innovative. | |
| | | Lily8 All-Star
Posts : 666 Join date : 2010-04-23 Location : Kildare
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:26 am | |
| Wouldn't be in favour of the proposal to change the senior leagues, division 2, 3, 4.
You could be in a situation where its better to lose a match in the first phase so you end up in the lower group with teams you feel you could beat than barely making it into the top group with the four best teams who could hammer you.
You're also going to end up playing the same teams twice, rather than 15 different ones. | |
| | | Frankel Intercounty
Posts : 388 Join date : 2011-01-04
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:06 am | |
| I personally think the senior leagues are fine. Its simple you get to play 15 different teams. guarantees plenty of games. some people might say there are some meaningless games near the end with nothing to play for but no matter what system you implement you will end up with this situation at some stage. | |
| | | lilysavage All-Star
Posts : 1117 Join date : 2011-11-25
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:04 pm | |
| Think Leagues are fine too as they are. If you want to avoid meaningless games, bring back top 4 semi final playoffs and maybe nottom 4 as well. | |
| | | Frankel Intercounty
Posts : 388 Join date : 2011-01-04
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:06 pm | |
| - lilysavage wrote:
- Think Leagues are fine too as they are. If you want to avoid meaningless games, bring back top 4 semi final playoffs and maybe nottom 4 as well.
This | |
| | | micky murphy All-Star
Posts : 634 Join date : 2011-09-12
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:25 pm | |
| Can't see too much wrong with leagues 1-3 at the moment maybe drop the amount of teams to 14 if they want to reduce the amount of games, cant see the reasons or methods behind the Div 2/3/4 as outlined above. 42 clubs playing league football excluding reserve teams in Kildare is a big number of players when you think about it. Reserve leagues as above looks ok. Personally would prefer the U'21 competition to be held in Feb/Mar and run alongside the Aldridge/Dowling and Keogh Cups which would help clubs get numbers back to training in January and would integrate the younger players into the adult teams. | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:46 pm | |
| Wouldnt have access to the county u21 players mick if u21 was played at this time of year! |
| | | Taibi All-Star
Posts : 2216 Join date : 2011-01-09
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:56 pm | |
| Is this what CB members spend their time at? If they spent as much time sorting out the county's finances and fixing the state of the county grounds they'd be better off.
Leave the senior leagues alone, there's not a club footballer in the county who wants the number of games reduced. As was said, semi-finals and maybe a bottom four relegation play-off is the only change needed. And stop fixing games on Sunday's when there's no county team in action on the Saturday.
This reeks of people trying to justify their existence at CB level.
End of year league games might look pointless on paper, but they're a great way to prepare for upcoming championship games.
I believe Kildangan are entering the Dowling Cup next year, which is great.
Last edited by Taibi on Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | kelf All-Star
Posts : 1031 Join date : 2010-09-18
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:18 pm | |
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if playing Under 21 late in the year its useless in relation to the following year's County Under 21....
So play Under 21 early in the year or play it as Under 20 late in the year,,,,,,,,,
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| | | topcat All-Star
Posts : 1723 Join date : 2010-07-30
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:05 pm | |
| They tried u/20 a number of years ago, somebody on here will have exact year(s) but it was dispensed with very quickly. | |
| | | ixus Senior
Posts : 126 Join date : 2010-08-22
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:15 pm | |
| The people on here saying do jothing, it's grand are talking through their hoop. I gave detailed reasoning in a thread here https://kildaregaa.forumotion.com/t1445-restructure-senior-leaguesI detailed the margins of the beatings going on and why a reduced league would increase competition and standard of player. EDIT: I posted stats of the margins of Div 1&2. Obviously, there are more thinking this way. It's positive that the board at looking at ways to enhance the standards in the county.
Last edited by ixus on Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | ixus Senior
Posts : 126 Join date : 2010-08-22
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:24 pm | |
| - ixus wrote:
I just looked at the results of Div 1 for the gap. Of the 60 games (6 lower teams versus the other 10), here's the results.
Played 60 Won 7 Drew 4 Lost 49 (And 3 of these wins came in round 1 when the cobwebs are still there)
The margin of defeat:
13 Losses 1-4 points 14 Losses 5-7 points 22 Losses 8+ points
You will find a similar gap between the teams in Div 2. The point is there's too big a gap between teams in a league of 16. Smaller leagues would/should create greater competition throughout a season. I also think it would improve the standard of football. If you moved up from Div 2 or 3, you would be much better prepared to stay in the next division. | |
| | | ixus Senior
Posts : 126 Join date : 2010-08-22
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:26 pm | |
| - ixus wrote:
- ........
I've also asked, would the standards of football improve and the competitiveness improve. That's the only reason I'm making the proposal.
To counter your suggestion that Div 2 was competitive. I've taken the results of the top 4 teams aginst the other 12 (as they would have moved into a different tier as in the opening post). Here are their results:
Played 48 Won 38 Drew 4 Lost 6
Margins: 9 Wins 1-4 points 8 Wins 5-7 points 21 Wins 8+ points (can only blame Robertstown for 4 of them)
This is broadly similar to the Div 1 results of the bottom 6 against top 10.
In both current Div 1 & 2. The higher ranked team had an 80% win rate, circa 40% by 8 points or more. The lower ranked team had approx a 10% chance of getting a point from the game. Not competitve.
Leaving Div 1 aside. Do you not think the Div 2 & 3 leagues would be ferociously competitive? I couldn't guess with any accuracy who would be in the top or bottom 2/3 of the proposed Div 2. The Div 3 would be a tough call too. I'd say we could all have a fairly good stab at who will be involved in the top 2/3 in the present Div 2 for next year. | |
| | | Botch All-Star
Posts : 1017 Join date : 2011-08-09
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:05 pm | |
| I do not see the harm in trying something new. | |
| | | topcat All-Star
Posts : 1723 Join date : 2010-07-30
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:01 pm | |
| Will these proposals all be voted on seperately or will they put before delegates as one proposal to restructure all of the comps mentioned? | |
| | | Ogie All-Star
Posts : 2572 Join date : 2010-01-30
| Subject: Re: Proposed New Format Senior Leagues, U21, Minor and U17. Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:02 pm | |
| - ixus wrote:
- ixus wrote:
I just looked at the results of Div 1 for the gap. Of the 60 games (6 lower teams versus the other 10), here's the results.
Played 60 Won 7 Drew 4 Lost 49 (And 3 of these wins came in round 1 when the cobwebs are still there)
The margin of defeat:
13 Losses 1-4 points 14 Losses 5-7 points 22 Losses 8+ points
You will find a similar gap between the teams in Div 2. The point is there's too big a gap between teams in a league of 16. Smaller leagues would/should create greater competition throughout a season. I also think it would improve the standard of football. If you moved up from Div 2 or 3, you would be much better prepared to stay in the next division. That's stark evidence. The problem is, much like many counties not wanting to be out of the running in the first year of a Sam Maguire, this notion of clinging onto Division 1 status is deemed sacrosanct. By all means, fight to be there, because to be at the highest level should always be the target, but it's a different target if it's top eight or top 12 rather than top 16 obviously. It would surely increase competitiveness and is worth trying I would have thought. | |
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