General GAA - AOB

Yes, that post was a joke - irony obviously not in vogue in these parts.

So to explain - Tommy is right, this debate is definitely the most surreal ever on here - no, I don't genuinely think Kevin Feely not getting an All Star is on a par with Watergate and Iran-Contra.

Pretty sure I'll never write a more bizarre sentence than that!!

Is the forum currently in its equivalent of silly season?

Feely no doubt how an excellent season and is probably in the top 4 midfielders in the country - Without a doubt at all. He was brilliant - KE blinkers or not.

However as we all know, Kildare were no where near the business end of the championship. We were miles off what was needed when it REALLY came to the crunch. That's not a criticism , just an opinion on where we were at this year in the end. As a result of that, we cant say how Kevin would have gotten on in the real heavyweight clashes from quarters onwards (he could well have been mighty, unfortunately we will never know..)

Therein lies the problem with the all stars. The league and provincial finals don't matter a jot when these awards are given out - Its (rightly or wrongly) heavily biased towards semi finalists or finalists in the case of this year. Years ago, a provincial final appearance would have nearly guaranteed you one but alas those days are long gone.

I'm delighted the two Kildare lads got a nomination and it is something they should be rightly chuffed about and it will no doubt give them confidence to be recognised in the upper echelon of the game when as a whole the county didn't even get to the last 8.

So well done to both, thoroughly deserved but neither will get within an asses roar of getting one and given how the year panned out I would say that is the correct decision.

For me Moran was clear POY

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

Comedy gold from Charlie Redmond... I know the Dubs are dominating atm, but you have to admit the sheer entertainment value their pundits and supporters provide is second to none...

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0921/906617-if-a-dub-did-what-keegan-did-thered-be-blue-murder/

Had an interesting conversation last night... made point that Dublin are great at the charm offensive in the off-season. Interviews with players etc, all the positive stories, the sad stories, the characters they are etc. Then lockdown. And the likes of Redmond's stuff, there are many who believe this is orchestrated too... An attempt to get Keegan suspended. Of course it's laughable, and while not a great look, just another layer of cynicism not much different to a jersey pull, dragging lads down for the kickout or Costello throwing away Clarke's kicking tee. Whatever it takes. Charlie's been at it for a while now. Gas man.

Look, I know in a way it's not even worth talking about, because Charlie writes for the Herald - basically a Dublin fanzine. But I mean the level it's got to... Worth noting as well that Charlie played in Leinster finals against Kildare and Meath that were genuinely some of the filthiest games I've seen. Some of the stuff - on all sides - lads would now get six months in jail for, never mind a suspension. So please Charlie, do everybody a favour and knock this stuff on the head.

A good read - robbed from GAABoard

Sky Sports GAA ambassador O’Callaghan launches new €3m grass roots partnership



Press Release
Sky Sports GAA, September 22nd, 2017

It’s been an incredible year for Con O’Callaghan. Unknown to most outside Dublin GAA circles this time last year, the 21 year-old has exploded onto the national scene in 2017, playing a starring role in All-Ireland victories for Cuala hurlers, the Dublin under-21 footballers, and of course, last Sunday, the Dublin senior footballers as they claimed a fifth Sam Maguire cup in seven seasons.

Yesterday the young Dublin superstar took up a new role as a Sky Sports ambassador, as the station’s new €3m GAA Grass Roots initiative, tying the GAA ever deeper into a deal with the devil which they can never get out of, was launched.

The triple All-Ireland winner is taking all the publicity very much in his stride, as Sky Sports’ Dave McIntosh found out.

Dave: Well, Con, it’s been an incredible year for you. Three All-Ireland titles and an almost certain Young Footballer Of The Year award to come, you must pinch yourself and wonder if what has happened to you this year is actually real?

But before you answer that question, let’s talk about Sky Sports’ brand new €3m grass roots investment in the GAA. As a Sky ambassador, what’s it all about?

Con: Yeah it’s a great initiative. It’s all about the grass roots and putting something back in, but more importantly it’s all about Sky getting the GAA over a barrel and tying them into a deal from which there’s no way they can ever escape. By signing up players like myself to act as Sky ambassadors it gives it a human face and people will be “conned” into thinking Sky’s motives are sound – it’s very easy to use this type of soft focus public relations technique to get what you want – just look at how the media are fawning all over me today and not asking any remotely difficult questions on condition of getting to speak to me at all.

Dave: Yeah it definitely is a great initiative. Where will the money go?

Con: Dublin, I'm sure.

Dave: So, to return to my initial question, what about 2017? What a year it’s been for you. Did you ever think you could possibly have as successful a year as this?

Con: Em, yeah, I suppose in one way I’m surprised but in another this was what I completely expected to happen. I’m just trying take it all in my stride, really, which has been very easy for me. It was great to win the three All-Irelands but they’re gone now as far as I’m concerned and I’m looking ahead now to try and win some more.

Dave: It’s just four days since you followed up your stunning goal in the All-Ireland semi-final against Tyrone by scoring another contender for Goal Of The Year after less than a minute and a half of the final. Tell us about that goal.

Con: Yeah, I suppose I just got the ball and decided to run straight for the goal, and lucky enough it went in.

Dave: There was no emotion from you when you scored it, just like after your goal against Tyrone. Were you not tempted to celebrate in front of Hill 16?

Con: Not really. It was nice to score it but as soon as it went in I was just thinking about how to get in position for the next kickout and pointing at everybody else to mark up.

Dave: So you weren’t tempted to give it “the big one” in front of the Hill? You know it’s the dream of every kid who has ever played Gaelic football in Dublin to score a goal like that and celebrate in front of the Hill?

Con: Not really, no. I’m a very level-headed, emotionless sort of lad so that’s not my style.

Dave: How did you celebrate the victory?

Con: Yeah we had a really good celebration, but Monday was the first day of next season as far as we’re concerned so you can’t overdo it.

Dave: Were there a few drinks had?

Con: Yeah some of the lads had a few, the likes of Kevin, Diarmuid, James and Eoghan, but I don’t drink, myself, so I left that to them.

Dave: Jim Gavin has instilled an incredible work ethic in this Dublin team. That kind of discipline has obviously rubbed off on you.

Con: Yeah, Jim really pushes everybody to be the best they can be. I suppose he’d be a big believer in the Sky corporate motto of “Believe In Better” and that’s the kind of philosophy this team lives by. We’re always trying to bring the battle rhythm to whatever we do, we’re all team-mates but we’re also in competition. I mean if you slept in for an extra hour on a Saturday morning, you could easily find your place on the panel gone, so you have to keep pushing yourself.

Dave: Of course back in the spring you also won an All-Ireland club hurling title with Cuala before following it up with an All-Ireland under-21 football title with Dublin.

Con: Yeah, it was really nice to play hurling as I don’t get to do it that often, and it was nice to win that as I suppose everything always comes back to the club because that’s where you start off. They say hurling is cool in Dublin now and Cuala is a cool name. And then the 21s, yeah, it was nice to win that too.

Dave: Do you think there’s ever a chance you might play hurling for Dublin?

Con: No, not really. I wouldn’t have the time and if you want to play football for Dublin you have to dedicate yourself to it 100% and be professional. I knew that when myself and my parents mapped out my life plan at the age of six. That’s just the way it is.

Dave: You seem to be one these lads that is good at everything he turns his hand to. I did a little bit of digging, and it turns out you have been an All-Ireland chess champion, Young Scientist of the Year twice, speak six languages fluently and were named “Person Most Likely to be Taoiseach” by your sixth year school class. People must be wondering to themselves and thinking, “this fella almost seems too perfect to be true”.

Con: Ah, look, I’m definitely not perfect – I only got 590 points in the Leaving. But yeah, I love the old chess, although I don’t get much time to play it these days.

Dave: Which languages are you fluent in?

Con: Irish, English, French, German, Spanish and Mandarin.

Dave: You’re in college at the moment, at UCD.

Con: Yeah, it’s nice to put something back in. Obviously I was one of the first players to emerge from the Dublin GAA cloning laboratory at UCD so I’m back there working part-time now and trying to help them perfect the techniques to breed another generation of even more perfect footballers than myself who will play for Dublin in 20 years’ time or so. When you play for Dublin you have to remember that you’re only passing through and that the jersey will always have to be handed on to somebody else.

Dave: There must be a great camaraderie between the graduates of that cloning laboratory?

Con: Yeah – there’s a good few of us who are or have played on Dublin teams – Ciaran Kilkenny, Cormac Costello, Colm Cronin, Chris Crummey, Conor Clinton, Conor Connolly, my brother Cian O’Callaghan, then there are others who are still too young but will be great players like Caolan Carthy, Conor O’Carroll and Cathal Conlon.

Dave: Is it a coincidence that your names nearly all begin with the letter C?

Con: No, of course not – that’s how the guys at the laboratory keep track of who we are and how we’re developing.

Dave: As well as your work at the lab you’re doing an internship with Grant Thornton. You must find it difficult to juggle all that?

Con: Not really. It’s all about time management. I just take it all in my stride. It’s only an internship and the bosses are very understanding. They’ve asked me to run the firm from 2019 on so it’s all good preparation.

Dave: And what does the immediate future hold on the playing front for Con O’Callaghan? The club hurling championship resumes this weekend with your Dublin, Leinster and All-Ireland titles on the line? Will you be playing?

Con: Yeah, I will, although I haven’t picked up a hurl since last March. But I’m sure it won’t be too difficult.

Dave: And what’s the future for Con O’Callaghan with the Dublin footballers?

Con: Hopefully to win as many All-Irelands as possible. But to be honest I’d be more worried about actually keeping my place on the Dublin team as there are new cloned perfect players being brought in every year and it’s very competitive.

Dave: Thanks, Con.

Con: No problem, Dave.

Dave: OK lads, unplug him.

Production staff member: He runs on a lithium battery, Dave - check the back of his head and you’ll find where it’s fitted and be able to remove it. I have the charger here and his carrier box is back in the cloak room.

As people know I'm not prone to exaggeration – but that deserves a Pulitzer. Brilliant stuff!!

I do think it is a bit of problem actually with sports journalism and how fawning literally all the interviews are. They're all brilliant, never challenged on anything, and it can be very cringeworthy in fairness...

Well, actually, not entirely true - Colm Parkinson for example does challenge people but he's in the minority. Also the fact he's an ex-inter county player I think gives him more leeway. Also, Paul Kimmage got stuck into Marc O'Se on Off The Ball earlier in the year and was brilliant. O'Se taken aback that a subservient hack actually had cheek to challenge him!!

Dave: There must be a great camaraderie between the graduates of that cloning laboratory?

Con: Yeah – there’s a good few of us who are or have played on Dublin teams – Ciaran Kilkenny, Cormac Costello, Colm Cronin, Chris Crummey, Conor Clinton, Conor Connolly, my brother Cian O’Callaghan, then there are others who are still too young but will be great players like Caolan Carthy, Conor O’Carroll and Cathal Conlon.

To be fair to Charlie - a man who head-butted an opponent in an All Ireland final and stayed on after getting sent off - when looking at the modern game and at last Sunday, Keegan definitely sunk the sport to new depths.

People being too harsh on O'Gara for that – he's clearly trying to get a fly that's landed on Boyle's face.

I think if anything Boyle should be banned for biting.

Seen a video on Twitter of Paddy Andrews totally ignoring and refusing to shake Cillian O'Connor's hand before the game. Add that to the O'Gara eye-gouging and throwing away kicking tees and that meat-head Redmond decides to have a pop at a lad for kicking a GPS monitor. Bizarre!

Dublin are a fine team but they have zero class. Much like their bandwagon fans.

Kevin feely is 20/1 to get all star

Some of the Dublin fans unbelievable... Was in my Kildare jersey for minor semi-final last year. Was cheering for Kerry in senior game and had some Dubs tell me I was - and I quote - "a f**king disgrace". Have honestly never got that before at a GAA game, think the senior success has spoiled then unfortunately and they can't handle that there's actually another county with the audacity to win provincial titles at underage.

Even Meath lads in fairness, even with the serial humiliations we have dished out to them at all levels in recent years, they generally take losing gracefully. I suppose they've had plenty of experience of it in fairness.

Kildare gaa forum last time I checked. Fuck Dublin. They are another county.

You mentioned Wooly who is Tweeting how, in the post season, two Dubs have been told not to do the GAA Hour even though they want to do it...
That´s the issue. If the GAA journos on the beat get blacklisted they are kinda fecked. That is why there is a fear to stick hit lads with a tough question and the interviews are mostly boring.
Kimmage can do what he wants and is not reliant on GAA matters.

As for all the other shite that is going on all the big counties are well able to conjure up shite and the fact that so many pundits ´write´columns these days makes it easier to get the message out there.

Not a huge fan of Dunphy but think he's got it right on this one

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/he-thought-he-was-lionel-messi-eamon-dunphy-claims-some-dublin-footballers-really-fancy-themselves-36159667.html

If fairness Dunphy would be an authority on "big headed pricks". There's certainly a few characters in the Dublin squad that are easy not to like and some of the interviews are borderline silly but on the whole they're not bad ambassadors for the sport. Can anyone see us playing them in conleths in the super 8's

Fed up hearing about Dubs tbh.

Or Mayo and their sense of entitlement.

As for us playing super 8's it should be the primary aim of next season along with staying in Division One. We've a decent chance of doing both but we'll need to turn up when the pressure is on. We just didn't against Armagh and I still can't fathom why not. Eoin Doyle's influence that huge (implying total absence of leadership without him)?

I imagine if we got a "home" game against Dubs it would be moved to Tullamore or (more likely) Portlaoise although I think we should fight tooth & nail to host it in Conleths.

Spot on? We're you at the alleged meeting with the bigirls headed prick. Dunphy probably made it up. Surprised the clown didn't go on tv to cry about it.

That articles is some crock - not that it may or may not be a lie. I mean, law of probability is there's a cocky prick, or asshole or two in the group. At least those cocky pricks have a few medals, unlike the cocky pricks who are cocky pricks just cos they have a county jersey, or play midfield for the club, or just for no reason at all! It's just Dunphy being Dunphy. Causing a stir to get himself his next job. A reflection on media and media consumers.

Eamon dead right on that one I'm afraid... Also his podcast The Stand has some really good stuff. Great interview with Paul Kimmage the other week - a lot better than the cringeworthy non-interviews doing the rounds with Con O'Callaghan this week. Again, Dunphy dead right - they come across a pretty boring lot, serious lack of charisma about the team one would have to say. Again, if you listen to Colm Parkinson's podcast, talks about how Dean Rock in interviews is a charisma vaccuum and actually very different to way he is person... Why is it only Wooly, Eamon, Kimmage making these points?

The other big GAA controversy this week is Gooch's testimonial. Very surprising, wouldn't begrudge him at all but Colm not a man to court controversy at all... Has caused some stir though.

Those who say ignore it... Why? A terrible wrong is being done.

The mornings after the nights before, and for quite a while now Dublin ought to have been giving those within the GAA seriously sore heads. At times though you wonder whether that's the case.

Take their last masterclass, three weeks back. The next day Peter Canavan appeared on Today FM and we tried to discuss the elephant trumpeting in the room but he was having none of it. Instead he pointed to Stephen Cluxton's aim, their patience on the ball, their new generation, their place in the pantheon. All of those are noteworthy of course but when it came something deeper – the power behind those blinding lights - there was a sudden full stop.

Money? Population? A numbers game? “Now isn't really the time to bring that up.”

It was indicative of a wider hear-no-evil-see-no-evil attitude that abounds in the sport. But if not now, when? Alderaan is destroyed but let's ignore the Death Star? Indeed if those in the GAA can't acknowledge the problem when it's staring them into submission, how do they ever tackle it? This isn't winter chatter, a space-filler, controversy, or a contrarian viewpoint, this is the game that's on the line and soon. Canavan like many didn't want to but we need to. So let's talk about Dublin.

* * *

John Bailey will always remember the bad old days. He talks about the legendary saga with Meath that amazed us all but how the sport's biggest draw earned the capital “£4,000 a game in sponsorship” so he went off and swooned Arnotts. A couple of years later when he decided an antiquated Parnell Park needed a rebuild, he met with builders one November day, told them he'd no money, but by Christmas he'd pay them. Soon after he and Minister for Finance Bertie Ahern were turning ground when word came through that Dick Spring had pulled the plug.

But Bailey's will always found a way and if he hadn't known before then, he quickly learned that sport, money and politics mixed. That came in handy as by 2002 the Dublin chairman wandered into the office of Minister for Sport John O'Donoghue with a revolutionary view for the future. “He didn't exactly receive me with open arms,” he laughs. “A Kerry man so he wouldn't be biased, he'd be blinkered instead.” Crucially, he wasn't just reliant on Kerry men.

By then Ahern had climbed the ladder to the top rung and as former GAA President Seán Kelly puts it of the overhaul of Dublin financing, “When it came to Bailey's plan, Ahern's door was open without the need to even knock.” As for that plan, it was brilliant.

“The structures and coaching were a weakness,” continues Bailey. “We went to the Taoiseach - he always helped us in any way he could - and said we need €2m to pay 100 coaches but I told him I'd give him it back. He looked puzzled. 'How will you do that?'” Bailey proceeded to explain that he'd take people on the dole, pay them €45,000, the government would get 20 per cent back in tax, and 22 per cent PRSI between employer and employee. “That was it. It subsidised all these coaches.”

From there he set up development squads with the money and trained players, bringing 100 kids of just 12 together in both football and hurling. “It just snowballed down the line.” For Peter Quinn though he was taken aback by what had happened. A former president himself, he'd chaired a strategic review committee that released headline news in January of 2002, suggestingthe capital should be split. Even former Dublin managers they canvassed could see sense due to the train hurtling down the tracks but in public? “Those same people came out after our suggestion and said we were a bit mad.” The net result was they'd never get enough support at Congress.

“At that point Dublin's strength was beginning to show,” Quinn continues, explaining the logic. “The potential was so obvious and there was concern they'd take over as that size would generate huge revenue and huge playing personnel and those elsewhere wouldn't keep pace. So I was surprised to see investment going into Dublin because it came along with no split at intercounty.”

Seán McCague was president when he announced his findings and Quinn says that they would have had very similar views. And when Seán Kelly took over, McCague had a specific piece of advice. “GAA in Dublin was struggling badly and he advised me to chair a committee just on Dublin and that was unusual,” Kelly recalls. “But I agreed and headed it with John Bailey. We came up with proposals for Dublin finance from Central Council, the Leinster Council and the government. From a coaching perspective that paid rich dividends.”

It was 2005 that Quinn had suggested the split happen at senior level but instead that year Paul Caffrey took over as manager of a united county. His goal? “Start winning Leinster, then start dominating Leinster, and use that as a springboard.” That season he beat Laois in the provincial decider by four points; in his final year of 2008 the four-in-a-row in the east was secured with a 23-point win over Wexford. That was just a start though. In Ahern's tenure as Taoiseach from 1997 to 2008, his county never reached so much as an All Ireland but, because of what he played a part in financing back then, they're on the cusp of four All Irelands in five years.

There are still voices of dissent on that but if better coaching of more young players doesn't raise adult levels, then every sports organisation is wasting billions. In fact while Caffrey disagrees with the idea they're taking over, he does tip a cap to what took place. “Over the last 15 years, the club standard has risen and risen. Take a two-footed player, back then it was unusual to see it at county, now look at our top eight clubs and the vast array of talent we have here. Games Development Officers attached to clubs, they've raised the standard massively and transformed what we have.”

Bailey also points to that work done, mentioning his own club of Cuala which has three coaches. “And that's replicated all over”. So much so that, as an example, in one tiny Church of Ireland school in Lucan, senior infants have football for physical ed as Westmanstown Gaels send in their own coach. Yet five miles down the road in Leixlip, participation rates are low and not improving. It makes you wonder, how did it come to this?

Cause.

Effect.

Catastrophe.


* * *

According to those within the Irish Sports Council, between 2005 and 2009, a total of €5m was made available to Dublin via the taxpayer for games development projects. To put it another way, it would take their opponents today 116 years to earn that from their current games development allocation. But it gets worse as while the government put in the foundations, the GAA itself has been happy to throw up the mansion all in the name of short-term profit.

Recently, Shane Mangan was doing his masters in IT Tallaght in research relating to data analytics in team sports. With no way of ranking football sides, he borrowed a formula first used in chess. “I would've been looking at correlations between those rankings and different factors that could have had an affect,” he says. One he studied was finance and, taking registered club players per county, he worked out the money per player in games development from the association between 2010 and 2014. Mayo were at €22.30, Tyrone at €21, Kerry at €19. As for Dublin, €274.70. “It was surprising as we see on a global scale lower ranked teams get more money to try and close a gap.”

There's a strong argument that such money helps the game grow and if this is about participation then the capital has the most to grow. For instance using those playing numbers and population, just 2.91% of those in Dublin are lining out – that's against 7.53% in Munster, 7.76% in Ulster's nationalist community, 8.16% in Connacht and 8.6% in the rest of Leinster. But if this is the beginning and the cash and success is growing the game in Dublin as suggested, should it get on par with the rest of the province it dominates, that's an extra 70,500 players they'd have at their disposal. That's twice the amount as already in this year's other three semi-finalists combined.

“To keep young people involved, they need realistic ambition,” says Seán Kelly. “Most playing intercounty can't win an All Ireland. Looking back we never envisaged what we did working so well." Yet part of the deal back then was a smaller scale investment in other counties and, as that is only beginning to happen now, it screams too little too late.

“There are over 90 games development officers in Dublin,” notes Leinster Council secretary Michael Reynolds, “but there'll be 89 in Leinster when the East Coast Project kicks in. But if money could fix everything in life and in sport, it would have been fixed by now. Also the flip-side is the crowds they bring in as a population centre, they fund the grants we give.” It surmises the quandary. Can't live without them, die slowly with them.

But Reynolds also resolves some misconceptions. Only 53 per cent of wages of coaches in Leinster comes from them. Dublin are also funded by the provincial council with one example being 'The Dublin Coaching Project' which accounts for more €241,050. And as for Croke Park development money, the national average outside of Dublin at last count was €70,436, but Dublin got €1.4m. That's before Dublin's other huge advantage. Market share, that has allowed them a sponsorship deal of close to €1m a year from AIG and to bring in 12 other official partners.

Just this week John Trainor of Onside sponsorship agency even took a call from Australia about them. “Brands say there are 1.2m people we want to connect with via sponsorship and if that's their focused objective, they will look at Dublin GAA given the footprint.” He adds, “When you cross reference sponsor spend and county size, they are really closely aligned.”

It's led to a behemoth. Last year at convention John Costello spoke of “the mumblings about funding and finance and the often ill-informed comment... nothing is hidden or secret.” But when contacted about their accounts the County Board asked, “What would you want them for?” As for their partners, only ROS nutrition would talk about the nature of their deal noting that, “We keep them in full stock of whey protein, pre-workout powders, post-workout recovery powders, multi-vitamin tablets throughout the entirety of the season.” Others wouldn't comment.

None of this is Dublin's fault but it is the GAA dilemma as they face a conflict of interest as they want to grow playing numbers without distorting the championship further. “There's no easy solution,” says Peter Quinn. But there is an obvious solution. If Dublin want the funding of a province to maximise the population of a province, it cannot field just one team. “I think they are strong enough to be split," continues Quinn. "And right now you'd have to be concerned for the game as if there's one thing that keeps us all alive and sane it's hope. Other counties are losing it.”

Even on the third Sunday of September, it isn't about one moment, one game or one season, but the future of intercounty football. Some think now isn't the time to bring that up but when better as an All Ireland final is the best example of what's at stake.