Kildare v Meath

Its not going to be easy addressing the Dublin issue. How many splits - North and South enough? But it needs to be done. If the GAA do it right they could be quids in with 2 monsters in Dublin. Their hand will be forced very soon if the annihilations continue.

I can't see the GAA ever forcing a split on the golden goose.

Thinking about this now, I can't see a way forward tbh. If you stop all central funding of Dublin, they still have all their other financial, population and location advantages. The commercial income will continue to roll in and they'll continue to dominate given their slick professional operation which maximises all these advantages.

On the flip side then, interest continues to decline and at some point even the most deluded of Dublin fans, the type who holds the view that this is both nothing special (and handwaves with whataboutery about Kilkenny and Micko's Kerry) and is the best team of all time, eventually also loses interest and doesn't want to pay €90 to see Dublin hammer Mayo or Kerry for the umpteenth time to win, say, their 15th of 17th available AI titles. Attendances drop further, TV money dries up, and in time, the Dublin juggernaut grinds to a halt but by then, nobody gives a flying fuck anymore.

Looking at Dublin's last 7 All Irelands wins you couldn't suggest it has been plain sailing or one sided games, we can't change the whole system to suit Leinster either.

In Connacht Mayo has won their first title since 2015, In Munster Tipperary's first title since 1935 and in Ulster Cavan's first title since 1997.

I wouldn't think any of the above provinces are worried about Dublin or Leinster plus they have 20 votes as opposed to rest of Leinster's 10 votes.

2011 - Dublin 1–12 Kerry 1–11
2013 - Dublin 2–12 Mayo 1–14
2015 - Dublin 0–12 Kerry 0–9
2016 - Dublin 1–15 Mayo 1–14
2017 - Dublin 1–17 Mayo 1–16
2018 - Dublin 2–17 Tyrone 1–14
2019 - Dublin 1–18 Kerry 0–15

It may well be the case going forward, this years All Ireland final will give us a better idea.

Few things on the above few posts.
1. Split in two won't be enough, it'll have to be three or four given the fact that we are heading towards 40 per cent of the national population living there by the end of the decade with the majority of the wealth there.
2. That golden goose is slowing and not laying a whole lot. Couldn't sell out Portlaoise last year with three other teams, couldn't sell out Nowlan Park the year before for game with Laois; Leinster finals half empty, Leinster semi-final three-quarters empty and even the Galway semi-final hardly brought anyone. Ally Dublin's lack of interest with the complete disinterest of the rest and to not split will be what costs the GAA millions rather than splitting them.
3. On All Ireland finals, Kerry clung on against 14 players in draw and were decimated in the last 20 in reply; year before Dublin in second gear costs; six point games in finals should be close. Also the Mayo team was incredible but died out, couldn't be replaced like Dublin, lost by 10 last year. One good team coming along to give Dublin a game or two in a decade isn't sustainable.
4. Dublin have had no problem splitting up when it suits. Fingal hurlers, they were fielding a north and south team in the Leinster league and so on.
5. Lastly, Dublin actually haven't done as well with the money as they should have. Get beneath the intercounty stuffand vast areas in the county nowhere near potential and not booming as they should. Get that right and you are looking at another couple of hundred players capable of intercounty and out of that there'll likely be another four or five superstars to add to the team every four or five years as well as 10 or 15 elite players.

The intercounty system has being in operation for 133 years. We all got a fair crack at it and some counties like kerry have overachieved and others like kildare have underachieved.

Maybe after 133 years the intercounty system is just not a good model of competition anymore. The GAA championship is just not much fun anymore. Dublins dominance is a big part of that but next in line is kerry who have the best players. If kerry win Sam maguire what does that really tell us anymore? Kerry are good at football. Well gee, I’d never have guessed.

Intercounty is on its last 10 years. A new model of competition is required.

Lads its now 15 out of 16 theyve won in Leinster - Its done, over.. This isnt a golden generation. Its now a senior team playing in a junior championship.

I love kildare, follow them everywhere but i wont attend another kildare dublin game (having boycotted the last couple)

As Tommy mentioned, they will do nationally what they have done locally.

Without doubt, Kildare and Meath have underachieved.

However and this is the big caveat i always mention to people its far far easier going into an all ireland final (like mayo) on a high having won silver ware and competing for provincial honours each and every year. Our lads know they have got a nigh on impossible chance each year. It creates doubts year on year and worsens your performance levels. Its insulting to use the lazy cliche of getting your house in order.

Our house isnt too far out of order and we (and meath) are still getting smashed.

And added to the above, like climate change, i am astonished this is even a debate ...

There is no debate - 15/16 Leinster titles and now 1/100 to qualify from an all ireland semi final.

Apart from Tommy (who i disagree with on many things), there is not enough of a national outcry from many media partners.

The only change will come when attendances continue to plummet. Its nearly too late. Remember when change does arrive, there will be another decade of catching up to do !! Tough times ahead for the national game at championship level.

The NFL on the other hand is a wonderful competition

Haven’t been on here during the championship, as I knew the story arc for this season of the long-running series having walked out of Roscommon game back in March - it was effectively the end of the line for this year, and for that particular Kildare team, frankly.

More broadly on the Dublin question, Saturday night represented the sad, sad full stop on a process that’s been going on for several years now. I really think the last decade was the end of something for the GAA.

Kevin Heffernan was really the visionary who made the Dublin footballers one of the biggest & most glamorous sports teams in the country. If things had been left as was, the Dubs would have had peaks & troughs - like an actual proper sports team - and the savage rivalries with ourselves & Meath would have continued.

It is pretty remarkable to know I won’t be going to another Leinster championship match again. Unfortunately, at some point over the next decade, Dublin will have to be split. They will resist it kicking & screaming and tbh I don’t really blame them - it was the GAA who allowed this shitshow to unfold despite ample warning.

If Dublin ultimately don’t go for it, or if it’s attempted & it doesn’t work, that’s it for inter-county football I’m afraid. Some things just have their time - classical music was popular once.

As has been widely pointed out in recent days, this is a desperate situation for a sport that it is one of the most amazing & unique aspects of Irish society. But ultimately it’s on the GAA - there was a point where this was recoverable, but despite repeated warnings, they were abysmal in their failure to act.

One final thought: I would dearly love to see Mayo win the All Ireland this year. What an amazing end to an incredible decade. But even if they somehow pull it off, Dublin will regroup in 2021 & win another five or six in a row. That’s just the way it is now.

Encore post...

“Kildare, of course, sat on their arses for the last 15 years whilst the Dubs slaved in their work.”

Just so we know the overwhelming fault - like 85/90 percent - lies with the GAA stacking the decks in favour of the Dubs’ senior team & not with lazy bastards like Kildare, let’s look at the facts.

At underage, schools & clubs level, this has actually been an era of LITERALLY UNPRECEDENTED SUCCESS for Kildare, all while competing with - no big deal or anything - literally the most well-resourced county in the history of the GAA. Our record in that time...

Four Leinster minor titles
Two U21 Leinsters
One U20 Leinster & All Ireland
Two Leinster club titles for Moorefield
Back to back provincial titles for Naas CBS & a Hogan Cup final appearance

Yes, doing feck all in Kildare we’ve been!!

Lads FYI we've won 2 leinster sfc titles in the last 50 years! Think about that and try let it sink in for a minute. 2 in 50 years!!

Long before Dublin turned into the beast it is today, we were very good at not winning leinster titles.

We have a tradition in Kildare of thinking we're better than we are, falling short when it matters and winning fuck all, irrespective of whatever unfair advantages Dublin have.

Our house is far from in order and anyone who says differently is part of the problem.

You can actually sign that off at 13 for all time because we’re not going to be winning it again.

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

You can actually sign that off at 13 for all time because we’re not going to be winning it again.

I'm sure many in Tipperary thought the same thing 5 weeks ago,

Gaa1928 wrote:

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

You can actually sign that off at 13 for all time because we’re not going to be winning it again.

I'm sure many in Tipperary thought the same thing 5 weeks ago,

In the final they bet a division 3 team thats just being promoted so honestly jog on with that kind of nonsense.

Not really - it is a Tipp golden generation & the last time they played Cork, in the league, earlier this year there was only a point in it.

The last time we played Dublin, there was 15 points in it. The team who destroyed us in the championship this year were subsequently subjected to literally the most crushingly humiliating defeat in their history.

So, it’s safe to say there’s a slightly bigger gap between us & Dublin than Tipp & Cork.

GoDownOnIt wrote:

Lads FYI we've won 2 leinster sfc titles in the last 50 years! Think about that and try let it sink in for a minute. 2 in 50 years!!

Long before Dublin turned into the beast it is today, we were very good at not winning leinster titles.

We have a tradition in Kildare of thinking we're better than we are, falling short when it matters and winning fuck all, irrespective of whatever unfair advantages Dublin have.

Our house is far from in order and anyone who says differently is part of the problem.

Fair points but we have made strides in getting our house in order - and the list of underage achievements in the post above is testament to this. However, this process commenced when Dublin had only started their recent dominance in Leinster. In the interim period the Dublin machine has gone into complete overdrive at Senior level (funding, sponsorship etc.) and raised the bar for all in Leinster and, let's be honest, for all those outside Leinster too. We have no hope of competing with that and realistically no other county has either.

Here’s why Dublin don’t need to win every underage title (although they actually win their fair share of them)...

Two years our U20 AI team wiped the floor with Dublin. Sean Bugler was on that Dub team & wasn’t even flagged as a star. But Dublin identified his potential & introduced to the senior set-up this year. He stepped into an elite environment & didn’t have a huge amount of pressure on him.

Come to the end of the year, he is already an excellent inter-county wing forward & will likely win an All Star in the next few years.

This process is continuing. Dub U20s reached AI final this year & Ciaran Archer from that team has Paul Mannion-type potential - that’s the Mannion who didn’t start in the team that just beat a Div 1 team & historic rival by 22 points.

Good luck competing with that.

GoDownOnIt wrote:

Lads FYI we've won 2 leinster sfc titles in the last 50 years! Think about that and try let it sink in for a minute. 2 in 50 years!!

Long before Dublin turned into the beast it is today, we were very good at not winning leinster titles.

We have a tradition in Kildare of thinking we're better than we are, falling short when it matters and winning fuck all, irrespective of whatever unfair advantages Dublin have.

Our house is far from in order and anyone who says differently is part of the problem.

Sorry about this GDOI and i know i'm being pedantic but it's 2 Leinsters in 63 years !!!

Depends on your take of what "house being in order is"

I would say the great strides made over the past decade bringing unprecedented underage success is a good barometer of this.

Like we were in an all ireland semi final a decade ago and have been quarter finalists in senior since then. Its not good enough thats for sure but again i make the point that when you are in a province with a juggernaut meaning you have zero chance of provincial success and have a back door route where ultimately you wont win anything HAS to grind you down.

Whilst it does sound like an excuse (and frankly i feel a bit deflated even typing this), you cannot argue with 15/16 titles for one team and say that its a level playing field.

What has been done provinically for 15/16 years is now being borne out nationally. 6 in a row should be a formality.

Granted some of the final winning margins have been tight - Probably a bit of "the occasion" combined with some decent teams involved (better than us and meath) plus the morale boost as i mentioned earlier of winning silverware all combine to make competitive games.

However - Leinster is a completely dead duck. Done. The all ireland is very very close to being the same. 1/100 to win an all ireland semi final says it all

As a matter of interest, what do people think about this year, part of me wants them to oblitorate both cavan (and presumably mayo) to add acceleration to the discussion about what to do. If its close in the final or even *gulp mayo do pull a rabbit out of the hat, i think the merry go round continues and the elephant in the room gets ignored for another while

Given Dublin's incredible work rate and competition for places it's inevitable that they will obliterate Cavan. Mayo have done well in the past but have relied hugely on players like Lee Keegan to somehow produce superhuman performances to just stay in touch. Can't see them getting as close again as I don't think they are anywhere near as good as they used to be.
Strangely enough it is in the best interest of Leinster counties for Dublin to steamroll their next two opponents and show everybody what we are up against every year.

If Donegal won Ulster then Dublin wouldn't be 1/100 to win the semi final so not sure that can be used as proof of anything.

At the moment every team in Leinster is beating by Dublin before they ever set foot on the field. I wonder how much of that fear of facing Dublin was in the back of Donegal player's minds going into face Cavan. I am not saying it was and it is impossible to tell but they were poor, flat and lacking their normal intensity.

If my aunt had balls. PS the best of the rest haven't covered themselves in glory. Look at Roscommon, Galway, Monaghan, Tyrone and Mayo in recent years. All been utterly humiliated as among the best in their provinces.

They’ve done it to absolutely everybody at this point. Championship games with Kerry have always been close but Dubs absolutely destroyed them in 2016 league final. They’ve also given them a couple of absolute maulings in regular league games as well. On a given day, they can annihilate everybody & will continue to do so.

As for what happens this year, not fussed. If Mayo win, delighted for them & one of the all time great Irish sports stories. Dubs will simply come back & win everything next year, and the year after that.

If Dubs hammer them - or even just have a comfortable victory - it’s the full stop on that particular rivalry (another one) & split discussion goes into overdrive again. Anyway, lads, believe me it’s coming on the agenda in a big way over next few years - this season has simply confirmed that we’re past the point of no return.

I suppose the big question out of all of this is - do the GAA have the competence and the stomach to make the necessary structural changes needed?

If ever there was a case for an organisational review its the GAA! I find the whole central council, AGM, delegates voting thing to be frustrating. On the surface it looks democratic but how representative is it? Do you, as a forward thinking GAA person who wants to see our games thrive in equality in all codes at all levels, feel represented? Do you feel like your voice is heard? Or do you feel like there's a load of old committee men (to borrow Tommy's phase!!!) voting to represent their own world view to to hell with everyone else? If your not in the room your not important.

The Dublin scenario could only happen where a governing body is either corrupt or incompetent. I don't believe for one second that the GAA is corrupt so that just leaves incompetent.

Maybe its time for an uprising to save the association from itself!

The uprising has to start in each club and the most important position in each club, for this purpose , is the Club Member of (Delegate to) County Board and probably even more important the names each club proposes for each position on Executive of County Board and as Delegates from County to Congress...

Then start looking at the Official Guide and any club member can propose replacement rules=== like replacing the rule which refers to Counties and a possible replacement with "Area" which is governed by a County or City Council- (Dublin has 4 !!!!)