Very interesting article taken from the Indo, ref online forums

A very one sided article no mention of the many positive things that do be said on internet forums,

Keyboard bullies put boot into young players' prospects
Many young GAA players are walking away from football and hurling due to anonymous criticism coming from online forums, writes Marie Crowe

Sunday June 12 2011

Before this year's Division 2 final, former All-Ireland winning manager Ger Loughnane was brought in to talk to the Clare hurlers. There was an issue that needed tackling.

A friend had shown him the content of an online forum and Loughnane was shocked at the extent of abuse directed at the inter-county players. A lot of younger players were being targeted and as a result their confidence levels were low.

As internet usage is on the rise, the number of online outlets for 'keyboard warriors' is also on the up. And these critics are attacking GAA players in a vicious and personal manner, in some cases forcing players to retire, causing mental health issues and affecting how the team they supposedly support performs.

Just last week two GAA players reacted to online rumours that circulated about them quitting their county teams. One took to the airwaves to set the record straight and the other tweeted in response.

"Apparently I've left panel . . . why do people make up these ridiculous stories #economicdownturn #nothingelsetodo," tweeted the aggrieved player.

A few days after those incidents, Down's John Clarke retired from inter-county football. He spoke of how he grew disillusioned with the barrage of constant criticism from so-called supporters. Last month his side suffered a five-point defeat to Armagh in the Ulster championship and Clarke was subjected to online abuse.

"You get a lot of criticism. You don't mind people criticising you to your face, but you have critics who sit behind computer screens and are on discussion boards, which is cowardly," said Clarke. "Players and managers alike take a lot of abuse on those things. That's not the reason why I'm retiring -- but there is criticism and there's criticism."

Elsewhere recently, an online campaign was launched to try and rid a team of one of its new players who the keyboard warriors believed was not up to the job. From behind their screens they publicly insulted the player and questioned his ability. In a subsequent championship game, the targeted player was the best player on the field for his county yet still the abuse continued.

The examples are numerous. One senior player who is in his 13th inter-county season is gravely concerned about what he described as "cyber bullying."

"It's the young players that are really affected," he said. "They don't even get a chance to prove themselves at senior level before they are abused and written off. It's okay for someone like me, I've developed a thick skin from years of playing but when you are 18 or 19 and you are giving up your life to play for your county, it's very damaging. Every player likes to read about themselves, most players like to hear it straight on some level but I don't think it's good for you to be hearing it that straight. We had a major issue with it in our county. We have a young team who in fairness spend all their time online but it was something we had to tackle."

A talented young player who is being touted as one of his county's stars for the future has already decided to call it a day and the abuse he gets online is in many ways to blame. He is playing in the current championship but as soon as that's over he's calling it quits. He simply, in his own words, "can't handle it". The team psychologist has tried to talk to him about it but it hasn't helped. He does discuss how he feels with his friends but it doesn't resolve anything and the abuse is having a direct result on his confidence both on and off the field.

Although he admits that he should probably just not read the forums, he says that he just can't help it. When you are in front of a computer screen for hours a day or walking around with an iPhone -- like most teenagers -- it's impossible not to stumble across references to yourself. It is a known phenomenon that people cannot resist googling their own name.

"I know that if I saw them in person I'd have no time for them whatsoever but the fact that you can't actually see them and you don't know who is saying it there is always a doubt that maybe he does know what he is talking about and what he is saying is right," the young player admitted.

"I know that there is probably only a community of about 20 people who actually contribute and maybe 10 or 15 of them might criticise me but that gives me the picture that everyone in the county feels that way about me and it affects my confidence."

In 2006, then Kerry captain Declan O'Sullivan suffered similar abuse but in a very public manner. He was substituted in the Munster final replay loss to Cork and was booed off by some of his own fans. He lost his place for the next game and it was widely reported that his confidence was shattered.

Before that incident there had been a lot made of Jack O'Connor's choice of captain and there was plenty of online discussion on whether O'Sullivan was fit for the job and if he was picked for the right reasons. However, he won his place back and led his team to the All-Ireland title.

But it wasn't a smooth ride to the finish. On the morning of that final against Mayo, O'Connor called O'Sullivan to his room at the Dunboyne Castle Hotel. He assured him that club and personal loyalty had nothing to do with him being named on the starting 15 and that it was form alone that earned him his spot. O'Sullivan went out and scored his side's opening goal.

The abuse of inter-county players is widespread. "You only have to ask parents who have kids playing what they have to listen to in the stands but these online forums and social media outlets have taken it to a whole new level," a doctor who has experience of being involved at inter-county level revealed.

"I know some of our players who every Sunday morning before matches or Monday morning after the match are looking at the papers to see what is written about them. It does upset and affect them. And then when you add what's been written on these sites it's just a dangerous level of criticism to be exposed to. It's hard for anyone to take; if these boys were getting paid then you would say something but they are amateurs who are entertaining people."

However, not all inter-county players feel the same. One prominent star feels that he is immune to the abuse. He hasn't read a forum in nearly five years but when it comes to Twitter and Facebook he takes it on the chin.

"If you are on a website or a social media site you are open to getting abused and that's a choice you make. I'm not affected by it at all even though I get hit with lots of negative comments. I think that when you are younger it can have a different effect but now I try to look on it as a bit of crack."

What no replies from an internet forum considering the subject matter?, I know the thread was put up late enough last night, but you get the feeling some people don't like what they see when they look in the mirror?.

Great article Kildarecat, I hope people read this article and pay heed to it.

Do you not think tough gaffer that the article was deliberately provocative and heavily biased?.
Like a lot of articles from the independent recently their supposed sources are never named, they had another article yesterday ref payments to GAA players and of course their sources remained nameless so I do have an element of sceptism as to the full authenticity of the articles?.

I can only speak for this forum as example, I never read any crazed attacks about any player be they county or club, admin wouldn't allow anyway, often constructive criticism and of course people will always have their own favourites, I don't see any problem with somebody saying such and such a player had a poor game, the players themselves know whether they played well or not they're often substituted anyway, now where in the article did they mention all the praise that is often afforded players on internet forums????.

Every body knows that paper never refused ink, In this case I have to agree with the article.Forums that have people hiding behind user names are open to abuse.In the past on this site players have been unfairly attacked and some of it way over the top.Admin has taken control of this and I hope they continue to do this. Constructive critism is fair but when it gets personal , then it no longer becomes a forum for fans about football. Admin in the past has steped into clean up the unfair personal comments leveled at players here. That in itself would give credability to the article.

Dont post on any other forum only this one so cant say what goes on on other sites but as Gaffer pointed out Admin does a great job in cleaning up some of stuff that gets posted on here at times but I wonder if that was not the case how bad would some of the comments get????

Why was the last kildare gaa forum closed down 1yr or 2 yrs ago ??? , just out of curiousity , was it at the request of the kildare county board ??, was it because of what this indo articule alluded too

kildarecat wrote:

Like a lot of articles from the independent recently their supposed sources are never named, they had another article yesterday ref payments to GAA players and of course their sources remained nameless so I do have an element of sceptism as to the full authenticity of the articles?

The pure reason they are sources/nameless is due to the content of the article. How much more abuse might some of these people get if they named them? Some of them could be a little over-sensitive, but you cannot deny people are using forums to abuse, instead of giving opinions or information. Society is becoming saturated in opinion - freedom of speech is one thing but you got to learn to use it in the right situation. Even those of us that use this forum can be "bullied" for an opinion. I think it's one of the reasons why some people have decided to leave this forum too...

Cill Dara, the Admins will look after that kind of thing.

I think a bigger problem is some individual posters get some sort of strange satisfaction out of abusing other posters if their opinion dares to differ to theirs?.
Instead of contructively putting a counter argument across.

thanks admin, still havent removed remarks on persons in section for vice chairman ,i did request same, fair is fair,thanks again

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

cill dara wrote:

thanks admin, still havent removed remarks on persons in section for vice chairman ,i did request same, fair is fair,thanks again

those have been edited.

Heraf wrote:

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

Case in point about how forums can get personal!!

even this forum has downhill over last few months with few of regular people do not write here anymore

You have people coming on with agendas, people with "print and bedamned" attitudes. For example Kildarecat has posted 4 times on this topic and its very clear which side of the fence he/she is on. He/she seems to equate an attack on an actual person to an attack on a email avatar, like which side of reality does he/she live in??

Wow somebody doesn't agree with Stonecold, I won't sleep tonight, my cybernic is ruined, how will I face my family, friends, work colleagues, acquaintances again.............. jaysus roll on the Dubs

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

Case in point about how forums can get personal!!

Nope, not a bit personal. Just check out the journalists writings and see how fond she is of unnamed sources.

Heraf wrote:

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

Case in point about how forums can get personal!!

Nope, not a bit personal. Just check out the journalists writings and see how fond she is of unnamed sources.

Calling this journalist "useless" is a personal attack on their character...it's no different to calling a footballer useless...as for the unnamed sources in the article, that is how a lot of stories begin with before they evolve over time with the revealing of identities and firmer facts...a bit different to a forum where contributors hide behind log-in names etc etc.

In defence of print journalist (no - I'm not! )) - they at least put their names to what they write (and often sources only speak when given anonymity). Those of us on this and other fora don't have to identify ourselves -ever.

tomoneillandhissisteranne wrote:

In defence of print journalist (no - I'm not! )) - they at least put their names to what they write (and often sources only speak when given anonymity). Those of us on this and other fora don't have to identify ourselves -ever.

Very true on both counts and no matter what is written someone is going to have a comment of some kind to make...this is what the media industry thrives on - REACTION!

I think we all have an onus to ensure moral standards are kept high, bottom line is nobody likes negative criticism and we as forum users should not tolerate it.

We must all remember the hard a graft Gaelic Footballers and particularly inter county footballers put in for our pleasure.

I'm sure they get enough stick from their team mates, managers and their own conscience without armchair pundits giving them more.

Needs to be cut out just like booing..

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

Case in point about how forums can get personal!!

Nope, not a bit personal. Just check out the journalists writings and see how fond she is of unnamed sources.

Calling this journalist "useless" is a personal attack on their character...it's no different to calling a footballer useless...as for the unnamed sources in the article, that is how a lot of stories begin with before they evolve over time with the revealing of identities and firmer facts...a bit different to a forum where contributors hide behind log-in names etc etc.

I don't know what's in Heraf's mind but it doesn't read as an attack on Marie Crowe's character. It just reads to me as if he/she doesn't rate her as a journalist and thinks she's useless at it. That has nothing to do with her character, the same as me thinking 'x' is a useless footballer is not making any judgement on the type of lad he is.

I wouldn't make any comment on how good or bad she is because I wouldn't read the Sindo so I wouldn't know. You wouldn't be mad on unnamed sources but the type of topic it is, you won't get them. I know it's something the dogs in the street know, as they do about managers, but it never makes the press. Of course the GAA will continue to say they don't see, so it doesn't happen - "we are amateur" - me bollix

Pure White wrote:

I think we all have an onus to ensure moral standards are kept high, bottom line is nobody likes negative criticism and we as forum users should not tolerate it.

We must all remember the hard a graft Gaelic Footballers and particularly inter county footballers put in for our pleasure.

I'm sure they get enough stick from their team mates, managers and their own conscience without armchair pundits giving them more.

Needs to be cut out just like booing..

negative criticism, criticism, positive criticism, constructive criticism.... I'm all confused, what's right, what's wrong, what's allowed, what isn't and what's the difference between any of them?

Ogie wrote:

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

Radley Park wrote:

Heraf wrote:

A pathetic article by a particularly useless journalist who specialises in the use of unnamed sources.

Case in point about how forums can get personal!!

Nope, not a bit personal. Just check out the journalists writings and see how fond she is of unnamed sources.

Calling this journalist "useless" is a personal attack on their character...it's no different to calling a footballer useless...as for the unnamed sources in the article, that is how a lot of stories begin with before they evolve over time with the revealing of identities and firmer facts...a bit different to a forum where contributors hide behind log-in names etc etc.

I don't know what's in Heraf's mind but it doesn't read as an attack on Marie Crowe's character. It just reads to me as if he/she doesn't rate her as a journalist and thinks she's useless at it. That has nothing to do with her character, the same as me thinking 'x' is a useless footballer is not making any judgement on the type of lad he is.

You said it better than I could Ogie. I don't know anything about her character but as you say I rate her journalistic ability as "useless"

Radley Park wrote:

tomoneillandhissisteranne wrote:

In defence of print journalist (no - I'm not! )) - they at least put their names to what they write (and often sources only speak when given anonymity). Those of us on this and other fora don't have to identify ourselves -ever.

Very true on both counts and no matter what is written someone is going to have a comment of some kind to make...this is what the media industry thrives on - REACTION!

People don't realise their hypocrisy on here lambasting The Sunday Game analysts (and I'm no fan myself)... it's hilarious