Interesting article from Sunday Indo ref illegal payments to managers!

Full article below, Tommy Callaghan also touches on the survey on his amusing article this week, 87% of inter county managers have a good relationship with their county board, as Tommy says "Honestly??


Survey confirms wall of silence blocking Duffy crusade
Director general's war on illegal payments appears unwinnable, writes Dermot Crowe
Sunday October 31 2010
A short time from now the GAA director general Paraic Duffy will be shining his torch on a thriving black market of illegal payments to managers, the notorious Mammon which to the most prescient or paranoid represents the gravest threat to the future of the GAA.

It is not that long since a man well versed in financial parlance and machinations, Peter Quinn -- considered a GAA conservative -- declared his attempts to find evidence of illicit payments fruitless: there was no trail, no footprints, no jabbering Deep Throat.

Quinn's catchy line about not only finding under-the-table payments elusive but even the table itself was the sound bite that carried an inherent message of surrender. Tacit in his admission was a flat rebuttal by county officers and managers. At club and county level there was then, as now, unlimited informal testimony of covert payments, and the blur of coaches moving from club to club and county to county underpinned those stories and suspicions.

The people Quinn's committee talked to perpetuated the lie and while the former president looks to have accepted, however reluctantly, his failure to make any inroads, Duffy is determined to find a way of ending the practice.

As we await his observations, the results of a Sunday Independent survey starkly reveal that mendacity remains commonplace, with not a single manager questioned admitting to receiving in excess of the legitimate rate of expenses for doing the job. Do you really believe that to be the case? Do the managers reading the results really believe that to be the case?

It exists for two reasons. Management can be a lucrative option and there is a clear demand for expertise among players and officers of clubs and county boards, with an acknowledgement in most instances that there will be a price to pay. This seems a reasonably comfy arrangement but Duffy, as can be gleaned from various ascribed comments on the subject, has a more jaundiced view.

One story claims that a recent inter-county appointee asked another about the "going rate" and was told that €80,000 might be deemed reasonable. But the payments, in Duffy's mind, are corrupt irrespective of by how much they exceed the official rates.

In late August we revealed two possible avenues Duffy may pursue. One would be to compel county secretaries and chairmen to sign affidavits swearing that their managers are not being paid unauthorised monies. This would hardly be well received, however, particularly with most county secretaries now occupying full-time positions. The other proposal being mooted is to make the management positions full-time, but this would have implications for travel expenses and therefore make the roles less attractive financially. Duffy will need to be original and highly imaginative.

In his favour, though, is a climate of recession and greater need for financial prudence. Ultimately, many GAA officials would probably welcome a more controlled and transparent environment.

That most managers expressed the view that The Sunday Game influences disciplinary decisions is not that surprising given their vested interest and the high stakes involved. They have an unfavourable impression of media scrutiny of any hue and a shared tendency to avoid the nub of the problem: that the player in breach of rule may be the scourge.

If The Sunday Game influences a decision then it is no different in essence to newspapers and media generally. There is also the possibility, one assumes, that The Sunday Game can also benefit a player in trouble where a mistake is missed by the match officials. Presumably an outcry from managers in this instance is less likely. But why?

Sunday Independent

Here is Colm O'Rourkes take on it and other issues,

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colm-orourke/colm-orourke-cash-and-conduct-are-still-the-games-biggest-issues-2401337.html

Below copy and paste from O'Rourkes article,

Perhaps legitimising payments to managers would be the best way forward. It would certainly help to attract more candidates into the field and the higher the calibre of manager then the better for counties and the GAA in general. The catch here is that players might then ask, 'what about us?' Yet management is a 40-hour week for at least half the year and it is time to officially recognise that.

Well excuse me Colm!, management is a 40 hour a week for at least half the year", how blinkered can you get, who is that controls the players lives for at least half the year or more depending, basically imprison them and put great demands on them both physically and mentally, not to mention their family and social lives are also severely affected what for most will be little or no reward at all?.

On the first article, how much out of interest does Pauric Duffy get paid by the revenue generated by managers and players during the year. Nothing worse than an official on big money dictating how things should be done to the plebs he thinks should be doing it for free.

I'd only listen to him if he was doing the job voluntarily and was only claiming expenses himself, then you could argue he knows what he is talking about.

On the Second bit KC, I'm not decided if O'Rourke has a point or not yet but you seem to be comparing players to some kind of serf. If they don't want to do those things then all they have to say is i'm out lads the commitment is to much.
I'd also be devil's advocate and say that many a player have got other kinds of "benefits" as opposed to money. It's a two way street in my view.

I appreciate there is a certain amount of benefits been an inter county footballer JME, and the vast majority of them are proud to don their county jersey, something they would have dream't of when they first played gaelic games to emulate their heroes say the likes of Glen or JD or if you're from Kerry the Gooch etc etc.

But over the years more and more demands have been put on players, the players recognised this, which is why the GPA was formed in the first place.
The GPA have had a few successes but have hardly blew the house down, if it ever comes to pass that Managers get paid on an official basis instead of the current hush hush, the players will have the GAA by the short and curlies and have every right to blow the house down.

Maybe the players are not serfs in a literal form JME, but it is afterall suppose to be an amateur game?, there can be no argument who sacrifices more, its certainly not the managers and mentors.
It will be fascinating where Duffy ends up with this investigation.
My own belief if you pay one, you pay them all, or pay none at all.

The thing is KC, if you don't pay players, they will still play! It's not as if not being paid would put someone of GAA and push them to another sport. It is only the very elite we lose due to lack of payment (ie. the lads who go to Oz).

However, with managers, if you do not pay them, the majority will simply not do it, well not the top lads anyway.

It may not be fair, but it seems to be a necessary evil if we want to attract the top people to enter/stay in management!

Look at Kildare or even yours or my club KC, if you look outside of the locals, you are going to have to pay for it, why else would outsiders consider managing you.... it's most certainly not for the love of the club/county. Fair enough as time progresses, they may become attached to the team/supporters but they originally take the job for the money/chance to enhance reputation as a manager!

In an ideal world, everyone would hire a local manager who is doing it for the love of the club/county but with teams so driven to succeed, they will always look outside the county for better alternatives and then I'm afraid, payment is inevitable!

If clubs & counties can barely get enough revenue to "pay" managers how can they pay players. Duffy is like our current GAA President Cooney, getting all hot and bothered about minor issues. About time they started addressing the fundemental problems with the game and maybe then when those are sorted get to the manager pay issue.

What you think the fundamental problems are SC? I'm not riling you, just interested to know

I wrote it on the other thread but................

Disband the CCCC, DRA, CAC & CHC and get one proper workable system.

Define what a "tackle" is or isn't.

Do away with the "President" of the associaion and appoint a permanent person who can have long term goals & aims.

Sort out refereeing, linesmen & umpire duties, standards & powers.

Eleminate the 5 year congress motion rule.

The GAA belongs to the members and must be answerable to them.

Stonecold wrote:

I wrote it on the other thread but................

Disband the CCCC, DRA, CAC & CHC and get one proper workable system.

Define what a "tackle" is or isn't.

Do away with the "President" of the associaion and appoint a permanent person who can have long term goals & aims.

Sort out refereeing, linesmen & umpire duties, standards & powers.

Eleminate the 5 year congress motion rule.

The GAA belongs to the members and must be answerable to them.

Ah if that was sorted, what an association and games we would have....... think you've got it all right there

I'm well aware that there is no money to pay players and many county boards can't really afford to pay managers and mentors either or would prefer not to, but as El G says its become unfortunately a necessary evil, payment to inter county managers and many club managers has become endemic so basically when these men are approached to manage a certain team they expect to be dangled a carrot.
From a Kildare perspective El G, bringing in an outsider has improved the team no end, and from my own clubs perspective bringing in Jack Sheedy has re-focused Moorefield, though they didn't become a bad team overnight, maybe they were getting a little stale.
In most cases the All Ireland winners have been managed by one of their own county men in both Hurling and football, John O'Mahoney been one of the exceptions a Mayo man managing Galway to a couple of All Ireland successes, of course Micko nearly guided us to one only to be thwarted by the above, I suppose you can give Paidi O'Shea a mention for guiding Westmeath to a first ever Leinster, but look at Clare, it took one of their own Ger Loughnane to pull their Hurlers out of the wilderness.
This years winners, Conor Counihan a dyed in the wool Cork man the same can be said for Tipps Liam Sheedy, so very little if any evidence to support bringing in outsiders, of course these home boys are also in receipt of payment but probably demand less than say an outsider would as they most likely always harboured an ambition to manage their own county team?.

Would'nt what O'Rourke is proposing, his suggesting of legitimising payments to managers and if sanctioned would surely only open up a can of worms?, players are not as subservient as they use to be, all you have to do is look at the Cork hurlers and Gerald McCarthy regardless of the rights and wrongs of it, players simply don't roll over any more.
They'd go for the jugular and it would be well within their rights to do so!!!.
So whatever happens, legitimising payment to managers will be a no go area for the GAA and there's a good chance someone will probably whisper in Duffys ear to let it lie and if you please Paraic could you lift that rug for me?.
Stonecold, maybe there are more pressing issues like the ones you mentioned but there's more than Duffy, he's only one of many at the top who can effect change!

Lads, there is one avenue or get out of jail clause open to all, all counties now employ full time coaches, Kildare have 5, all paid by the Gaa, what would be wrong if one of these positions was for the county senior team coach. You could limit it too say 2-3 years and clearly define his duties and maybe give him a coaching input into other county squads. You would then have some kind of control on what is going on. If I'm not mistaken Tipp tried to do this with their football manager and I think Croke Park stopped it. The reason that you have high profile managers are getting paid is because the squads they train demand the best off everything so they can reach their goals, what would we have to say if our county board did not not provide this, in other words they are damed if the do and damed if the don't.

Nail on head Ballyboy - Tipp tried to do the right thing, it was a positive, pro-active move, Evans was going to schools etc all around the county but the GAA stopped it. If that had been allowed by the cretins and dinosours, you can be sure Geezer would have been the same here... what's more it was a way out for the GAA (like agreeing to the grants, just not handing over the money themselves - who do they think they are kidding?) because the money was being handed over for a full-time job.

It is the only way to get some kind of control, it would also make it more attractive for people to take up a career in Gaa coaching, Just imagine every county having a head coach paid for by the Gaa, that would take some pressure off county boards and supporters clubs, then the money they raise could go to development squads. Now I have no doubt that some coaches might look for some payment under the table so make the penelty if caught the loss off his coaching badges. You could also limit the time a coach could spend in a county to lets say 3 years so that the best coaches get moved around and use a tier system so the more succesfull ones have to move DOWN to the weaker counties

The whole coaching thing can only be sustained for so long... I fear there'll also be a tightening of the belt in Croke Park. No more soccer and rugby in Croke Park means they will need to find the money to pay things without this revenue. I don't mean coaching will be done away with as it's required to keep the up the great work done so far and to continue to keep ahead of the chasing possie, but we all know whats going on and money isn't as easy to find as it was. At the height of the boom, getting your name on a jersey or advert on a pitchside was the in thing. We see how the county board is struggling at the moment so something will have to give unfortunately... I do hope it's not the coaching....