meath v kildare 7 feb @7pm

Makes me laugh, all of it. Before World Cup, spent months studying the Belgian model of soccer and how smaller can be competitive and how exactly to do it. Talked to so many of their key people, reminded me of Kildare and came up with a plan based on what they did and what we could do. So I got in touch with them again, spoke GAA, and got in touch with key people in Kildare and how I saw a key resemblance and would like to help through my contacts who were clearly experts in a far more competitive world.

Sadly response read that they thanked me for mail, had their own plans, suggested they were doing something similar (without having a clue about what I was hinting at) and thanked me for time. I tried so hard to bring expertise via contacts to people and they walked away smug. Even as a Kildare man - and never thought I'd say this - hope it goes bad because status quo changes nothing.

Never planned to make that public, but a large group of idiots are defended for being amateur. When offered help from amateurs... and we wonder why.

Why did we only have 1 forward in there the whole time forwards are been left isolated Podge cant do much more. Management has to go tactics are a shambles....
Everything is too rigid like there was acres of space and no body was running into it...Meath are shite we're worse at the moment and we definitely need to improve if we are going to go anywhere other than down.

On a positive note the backs we're class esp Eoin Doyle he is one tough cookie!!!

Sadly Tommy all your work fell on deaf ears mostly,possibly cos you mentioned "the soccer" as part of your study...mentioning Champions League format is a deff no no......4 groups of 8 or 8 groups of 4 ??....might get passed at congress....??

ps post lost in space....wear the white to the gym tomorro.....for the players...

kickingking wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

kickingking wrote:

Last year Mick Foley was hung out to dry by being left so isolated by the rest of the team, this year it's Podge Fogarty. It would be nice to have something in between. If Kildare can't find that balance soon, it will be a long year.

KK I disagree. I think Podge needs to show more bite and pace if he's going to hold down a place in the team. Some of the balls down to him were 50-50. McGill, a novice player at this level, won most of them. Podge will rack up scores when we're winning but if his place is not to be taken by Smith he must show the ability to win dirty ball when we need him to.

I agree he didn't have a great night tonight anyway but even if he wins some of those balls he still isn't going to have great options when there is no one within thirty yards of him apart from 3 opposition defenders. It would be the same story if it was TOC or Smith up there on their own. Donegal managed it with McFadden but they were always quick to get support to him and could rotate Murphy in and out. Unfortunately we don't have that luxury.

Yeah fair enough but he has to win the ball first. But I agree, I think the way we're setting up has veered from too positive to too negative. We need to find a balance. You shouldn't lose at any time of year if you limit the opposition to 13 points.
Meath were there for the taking before half-time and we should have gone for the throat. Need more games to judge the way we're going about it but the early signs are not encouraging.

TommyKeegan wrote:

Makes me laugh, all of it. Before World Cup, spent months studying the Belgian model of soccer and how smaller can be competitive and how exactly to do it. Talked to so many of their key people, reminded me of Kildare and came up with a plan based on what they did and what we could do. So I got in touch with them again, spoke GAA, and got in touch with key people in Kildare and how I saw a key resemblance and would like to help through my contacts who were clearly experts in a far more competitive world.

Sadly response read that they thanked me for mail, had their own plans, suggested they were doing something similar (without having a clue about what I was hinting at) and thanked me for time. I tried so hard to bring expertise via contacts to people and they walked away smug. Even as a Kildare man - and never thought I'd say this - hope it goes bad because status quo changes nothing.

Never planned to make that public, but a large group of idiots are defended for being amateur. When offered help from amateurs... and we wonder why.

Every top GAA player, Manager, pundit and general know all expressed shock and disbelief that we parted with McGeeney.

Our clubs knew better though. Lads on here knew and know better. Somehow they believe that come June July and august, the summer months, we'll somehow have transformed from being rudderless and lacking direction to a mixture of Donegal and Dublin thrown in with the steel and will to win of Tyrone in the 00's.

We're going down to Division 3. I stated it weeks ago. Nothing has changed. And the Laois Championship game will look like 2 teams wishing they would lose so that it can all be over the following week.

I hope Martin Whyte and the hurling gombeens sleep soundly at night.

F reddy your a wind up merchant. Your negativity is unreal. McGeeney had run his course

Freddy Krueger wrote:

TommyKeegan wrote:

Makes me laugh, all of it. Before World Cup, spent months studying the Belgian model of soccer and how smaller can be competitive and how exactly to do it. Talked to so many of their key people, reminded me of Kildare and came up with a plan based on what they did and what we could do. So I got in touch with them again, spoke GAA, and got in touch with key people in Kildare and how I saw a key resemblance and would like to help through my contacts who were clearly experts in a far more competitive world.

Sadly response read that they thanked me for mail, had their own plans, suggested they were doing something similar (without having a clue about what I was hinting at) and thanked me for time. I tried so hard to bring expertise via contacts to people and they walked away smug. Even as a Kildare man - and never thought I'd say this - hope it goes bad because status quo changes nothing.

Never planned to make that public, but a large group of idiots are defended for being amateur. When offered help from amateurs... and we wonder why.

Every top GAA player, Manager, pundit and general know all expressed shock and disbelief that we parted with McGeeney.

Our clubs knew better though. Lads on here knew and know better. Somehow they believe that come June July and august, the summer months, we'll somehow have transformed from being rudderless and lacking direction to a mixture of Donegal and Dublin thrown in with the steel and will to win of Tyrone in the 00's.

We're going down to Division 3. I stated it weeks ago. Nothing has changed. And the Laois Championship game will look like 2 teams wishing they would lose so that it can all be over the following week.

I hope Martin Whyte and the hurling gombeens sleep soundly at night.

Is it just to be told you were/are right you are looking for Fredy ? You constantly seem to be seeking reassurance that you called it correctly. Well if that's what you want, off with you.
Very upsetting but not surprising to hear of Tommykeegan's news. There is a total and utter lack of professionalism at County board level and it doesn't appear that it's going to change anytime soon.
I actually feel a bit for Jason Ryan even though I don't think he will ever deliver anything of substance for us. I know that he is not 100% happy with the way he has been dealt with by the county board in terms of financing the team, not surprising giving news about us in papers during week.
On the pitch, we just have no 'go to' man in tight games and seem to be lacking a real leader, a bit like our county board actually.

Tried posting a couple of times last night but the site or my phone don't seem to want me to post.

Having slept on it the feeling is still one of despair. Despair for the state of Kildare football, Leinster football and football generally. That was pure muck last night. I've been watching Kildare for almost 40 years now and I feel like we're back in the '80's, the most demoralising decade probably ever to be a Kildare fan. When we just new we'd have our ar_ses handed to us by the likes of Dublin, Offaly, Laois and Meath (and that's just within Leinster).

You just knew last night with 15 minutes left there was only going to be one winner. And that it would be the worst Meath team in my lifetime. Our team are mentally brittle in the tradition of most Kildare teams (whether we like it or not). Lads unable to make the right on-field decision to save their lives (Hail Mary shooting, hopeful passes into an outnumbered forward), defenders unable to tackle as it's easier to foul and then blame poor refereeing. Talented players who can kick frees for fun until the game is tight and the goalposts narrow.

As for the manager, the "I told you so's" (Freddy, Tommy etc) are glorying in and laughing at our fate as if they were the only people in the country who knew Ryan was a worse manager than McGeeney. I was gutted we go rid of McGeeney when we did but it was questionable at the time whether he could get much more out of the players at his disposal. So I said I'd judge Ryan on results. To me that meant staying in Division One, and getting to Leinster Finals and AI Quarter Finals.

It's pretty much a given now that Ryan is not producing the goods. We are heading for Div 3 unless we can win in Portloaise and at home to Westmeath and even that may not be enough. I don't fancy us against Laois despite their own poverty. These lads have now lost 4 tight games against decent opposition in a row (Monaghan, Dublin, Down, Meath). Mentally fragile.

The manager sits in the crowd and must see that his tactics have veered from one extreme to the other with the one-man full forward situation wrecking my head. Fogarty was poor at winning his own ball last night (and their full back was excellent) but he was up against 2 or 3 defenders  most of the time and dealing with some pretty wild passes a lot of the time. Ryan must see that if you are going to play a Donegal you need to break quickly and get up in support of the full forward line. We DO have pacey players contrary to some observers above. Doyle, Lyons, Fitzy, Kelly, Cribbin all have pace but the tactic seems to be to go cross field with 3 or 4 passes which allowed Meath to regroup.

Despite a fine display from Doyle (the only bright spot apart from Mr Consisency O'Neill and at times O'Grady), I'm not buying the idea that all these defenders back have improved our defending. When their no 7, Menton, started running at us along with Tormey, the usual hole was opening up down the centre and it was only the poverty of Meath's attack that prevented goal scoring opportunities. I presume Conway was left on the bench because he'd played Sigerson, otherwise it's criminal neglect not to reinforce our back line with him.

Midfield is a total wash out when the opposition have a couple of decent tall lads in there. Chalky is great for throwing shapes but where was he when we were under the cosh in the final quarter?

Sorry to be so negative and it's not in a "told you so" way as I'm normally an optimist, but we're in a really bad place. Can't see us surviving Div 2 and Ryan will be gone by August by the looks of it.

ps. I'm not even going to get started on Mulhall and where/ how he's playing..

In a word we are f*cked.

We have a manager who has no idea how to set up or get the best from the players he has.
As soon as I seen the team for Down I knew he was clueless. Spent the entire O Byrne playing one system, then changed it for the league. The result being we look like headless chickens again.
There are players playing who are there only because of reputation, not how they are playing. The manager hasn't got a big enough pair to drop them.

It's becoming clear why McGeeney didn't rate a lot of them.
When it gets tough our boys go looking for a place to hide.

Still I would not put all the blame on Ryan. The players need to man up or get out of dodge. Never have I seen a group take the wrong choices so consistently in all the years I've watched Kildare. They will take the wrong option 3 times out of 5. It is stunning how they can balls up a good attacking chance time after time, give away a stupid free, pass to a man marked by three defenders, hit a shot 15 yards wide in a hail Mary attempt at a score when a cool head is needed or drop an easy chance into the Goalkeeper's hands.

To complete the circle of failure, we can't leave out the County Board, who have lurched from one disaster to another, compounded one mistake onto another and have shown zero ability to change and modernise Kildare GAA.

The only chink of light is Eoin Doyle who looks a born leader. Someone who seems to care. I'd hand him the captaincy tomorrow.

Other than that it's a awful time to be a Kildare supporter.
Ryan has to go in my view, he has had enough time. He has lost the players in my opinion and now the supporters have had enough. The problem is who wants to manage us.

Is McStay still available?

TommyKeegan wrote:

Not getting too much into I told you so - it was too obvious for that - and anyone now using "only two league games"  as excuse for some great rise on horizon is as much of a clueless idiot as those who thought Kieran should have gone. Then again, we're clearly a county of selfish club-centric idiots, would love a list of every one of those simpletons who voted against McGeeney that day. Then again who knows their agenda. Won't have past is past from people either who say move on, therefore they can never be wrong and clearly don't have Kildare interests at heart.

Being away, wasn't at game, listened live as always, but a county in 2011 people feared (talked to many professionally who never wanted near us because we were hard as diamond) to a soft touch and let's be fair, the same windy shower (if another county was us, I'd relish the fixture against them). We're back as a nothing county, relegation on 7 February now issue, not promotion which is gone.

Was going to wear Kildare jersey to gym here tomorrow, but best not, might stop running, or simply be told to run the wrong way. Well done Kildare - a populous county that stabbed itself in the stomach and now wonders why it bleeds. Relegation would be deserved  for our off field actions, and it democracy of our clubs is this no wonder we can't get near a Leinster title while debating over 22 pages Moorefield's manager as if anyone cares.

Then again, stop living in past, division three is challenging, Laois there for taking. No wonder we are complete and utter losers. "That's too negative Tommy." Shove it.

At least Moorefield are not afraid of change and spent time checking out the best available people for their management team which is more then can be said for our senior officials in the county.

Looking at the management/backroom teams at present I would rather be in Pollardstowns training then is Hawkfield.

Bad News Baba wrote:

They can say what they like, there are plenty of lads on here with egg on their face. It's not rocket science to see who they are and also certain people in the local media.

I said last year he was a spoofer, I let the year finish and this one start to see if he could manage any semblance of a game plan or tactical awareness and as I thought he he is useless.

We'll have the "give him time" merchants on here soon alongside the "its only the league" flag wavers. They all know they backed the wrong horse. That taste in their mouth is reality.

Harvest time.

When it comes down to it, at the end of the day, it's always the meeja's fault

Murof

You say you'd like to see hyland in instead of lyons, what's the basis for that? Lyons has been our best man marker for the last 2/3 years. Yesterday Wallace was taken off before half time. He hasn't conceded a point in the league so far this year. If by the end of the league he hasnt conceded a score would you still say that?

Westside wrote:

Murof

You say you'd like to see hyland in instead of lyons, what's the basis for that? Lyons has been our best man marker for the last 2/3 years. Yesterday Wallace was taken off before half time. He hasn't conceded a point in the league so far this year. If by the end of the league he hasnt conceded a score would you still say that?

Just my opinion, I think Lyons is over rated and just looks good bursting out of defense but always offloading quickly.
As for our best man marker for 2/3 years, what top player has he marked and done really well on?
I think we need more aggressive players like Hyland and Doyle at the back and not any more " nice ball playing defenders"
By the way that is not all that is wrong with Kildare by a long way! I can think of a few players who are not up to the job anymore. It's time to bring in more younger players like O'Grady who had a fine game yesterday. It's not like we are going to win anything this year anyway.

[quote="murof"]Awful display against an awful Meath side. At half time I said we could actually hammer these guys if we have a go at them. We never did,  Dowling looked to be on fire again but did he receive a decent ball in the 2nd half?
Ryan is undoubtedly a spoofer but harking back to the McGeeney sacking is futile, once McGeeney accepted the decision and walked away, which he did with dignity that was that.
Don't know where we go from here but am glad we don't go up as we are not a 1st division side and would not last long there.
Doyle and O'Grady are really good players but would like to see Hyland in place of Lyons the next day.
Sadly Fogarty is not the answer at full forward and  the TOC debate  might just start again.
On that evidence who can we beat in this division?[/quote ]

I said already the McGeeney ship sailed. Its finished and we should move on. Although ther are a number of things that we shouldn't sweep under the carpet or accept.

The manner in which our previous manager was removed, allowing the clubs to have a say. The clubs will always peddle their own agenda and cannot clearly make an informed decision.

The absolute dire financial shambles we are in will surely impact on the preparation of all put county teams.

The appointment of Jason Ryan was wrong and its becoming clearer and clearer the longer he's left in charge. Damien Hendy and Quinn are obviously useless also. An EGM should be called and they should be removed whilst we have 5 league games left to salvage our season.

If Ryan Hendy and Quinn had any balls they'd resign

Sunday Times fixture list for today has us playing Louth in Div 3 - looks like the GAA have decided to put us out of our misery already.

Kieran McFuckingGeeney!!!
Jesus can we not just move on. Everyone seems to be going mental that Jason Ryan is a spoofer but are happily forgetting the fact that Geezus Christ himself brought him in!
For the absolute record i felt McGeeney did a good job but the time might have been up. However, I don't rate Ryan and I would have preferred the Co Board to get their thinking hats on. Geezer was an outside the box appointment by Syl and it worked.
Also everyone here is forgetting the hidings we got under McGeeney too...Once again this is not in any way in support of Ryan who I don't think is great but just a bit of perspective please...
Also in the heel of the hunt Kildare player's need to grow a pair. There are proper men at the back but once you go up the field the balls fall off...Now let's not fool ourselves into thinking this has all happened under Ryan, it's an age-old trait of Kildare.

On the game itself i really think Mulhall needs to be right in on top of the goals because when he actually has time to think it often doesn't end well. I'd like him just acting on instinct close in and being a pure finisher.

Murof

hr marked the oppositions best forward in every championship match last year and conceded 2 points in the whole championship. That's after marking graham reilly, Conor mcmanus, Conor laverty, David tubridy, Derek maguire from louth. Previous years he's always got the better of Bernard brogan, andy Moran, David kelly. If you know a player on the team ask them who the best marker is. Maybe I'm biased cos I'm a celbridge man though

Flamingo wrote:

Kieran McFuckingGeeney!!!
Jesus can we not just move on. Everyone seems to be going mental that Jason Ryan is a spoofer but are happily forgetting the fact that Geezus Christ himself brought him in!
For the absolute record i felt McGeeney did a good job but the time might have been up. However, I don't rate Ryan and I would have preferred the Co Board to get their thinking hats on. Geezer was an outside the box appointment by Syl and it worked.
Also everyone here is forgetting the hidings we got under McGeeney too...Once again this is not in any way in support of Ryan who I don't think is great but just a bit of perspective please...
Also in the heel of the hunt Kildare player's need to grow a pair. There are proper men at the back but once you go up the field the balls fall off...Now let's not fool ourselves into thinking this has all happened under Ryan, it's an age-old trait of Kildare.

We rarely lost 2 games in a row before Ryan and after Crofton ( i won't mention his name) . We lost a game and there was always a response the following day out. Plus we never had to listen to the muck Ryan spews out of his mouth after a defeat. The man before ryan and after crofton told it like it was. Ryan isn't endearing himself to anyone for a number of reasons, that being one. Sitting in the stand another. Results. Performances and being in reverse basically.

Under Ryan out of 9 League games we've won 1 at home to Mayo with a last minute Brophy point. Here's what we have conceded in those 9 league games : 2-13 (Down) 0-13 (Meath) 2-18 (Mayo) 0-16 (Cork) 3-16 (Tyrone) 1-22 (Dublin) 2-15 (Kerry) 2-17 (Derry) 0-08 (Westmeath) Total 12-138 in 9 games. Yes 9 games.

I chose to keep the faith before this match and thought we might get the better of a poor Meath team – boy was I wrong.

You know, the state of play for Dublin in Leinster at the moment is a bit of a double-edged sword. They're going to walk it again this year and it wouldn't surprise me if they handed out another couple of 15-point trimmings to Kildare and Meath. But I actually think this is proving unhealthy for them later in the championship, as we saw last year. Anyway, that's Dublin. Oh to have such problems!

What can you say – if we continue on the path we're going, we're headed to Division 3 and as Crofter alludes to, beating Laois in June is by no means a certainty. Even if we do, all that's in store is another humiliation against Dublin.

Ryan has the right idea playing a counter-attacking system a la Donegal, but the implementation of it is all over the place. We're not playing with sufficient intensity in defence, and there are times when it looks like the "attacking" half of the equation has been dispensed with altogether. And yes, there are few more appalling sights in Gaelic football than a misfiring defensive system.

I felt Ryan was out of his depth when he was appointed and I think we're seeing this now. If we'd put up a decent display it would be one thing, but the most worrying aspect is that the team appear increasingly drained of confidence.

In terms of rectifying the situation, the county board has a hole in its finances the size of a small country's GDP, and there are no signs of a specialised team being put in place to select the county team's manager (as is standard practice in Dublin and other similarly unsuccessful counties), meaning the same geniuses who landed us with Ryan are calling the shots next time out as well (which is looking on schedule to be sometime later this year).

Frustrating thing is I believe there's a lot of potential in this squad, but at present, we're going nowhere. Don't know what else to say - these are very grim times.

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

I chose to keep the faith before this match and thought we might get the better of a poor Meath team – boy was I wrong.

You know, the state of play for Dublin in Leinster at the moment is a bit of a double-edged sword. They're going to walk it again this year and it wouldn't surprise me if they handed out another couple of 15-point trimmings to Kildare and Meath. But I actually think this is proving unhealthy for them later in the championship, as we saw last year. Anyway, that's Dublin. Oh to have such problems!

What can you say – if we continue on the path we're going, we're headed to Division 3 and as Crofter alludes to, beating Laois in June is by no means a certainty. Even if we do, all that's in store is another humiliation against Dublin.

Ryan has the right idea playing a counter-attacking system a la Donegal, but the implementation of it is all over the place. We're not playing with sufficient intensity in defence, and there are times when it looks like the "attacking" half of the equation has been dispensed with altogether. And yes, there are few more appalling sights in Gaelic football than a misfiring defensive system.

I felt Ryan was out of his depth when he was appointed and I think we're seeing this now. If we'd put up a decent display it would be one thing, but the most worrying aspect is that the team appear increasingly drained of confidence.

In terms of rectifying the situation, the county board has a hole in its finances the size of a small country's GDP, and there are no signs of a specialised team being put in place to select the county team's manager (as is standard practice in Dublin and other similarly unsuccessful counties), meaning the same geniuses who landed us with Ryan are calling the shots next time out as well (which is looking on schedule to be sometime later this year).

Frustrating thing is I believe there's a lot of potential in this squad, but at present, we're going nowhere. Don't know what else to say - these are very grim times.

Agree. The implementation and execution of the "Donegal" style of play must be causing McGuinness some sleepness nights looking at how poorly we have ripped him off.

One aspect of Donegal's play which allowed them to play the way in which they did was that they were excellent in the tackle and completely disciplined. We gave away so many frees last night we were lucky Newman and O'Rourke were so poor. Out of the 13 points 0-06 were frees and they missed countless others.

We were as poor as I have seen us in a long time in the second half last last night against a poor Meath side, the system we are trying to implement is not working and should be changed immediately, I think it is obvious that we need to leave more than one player in the forward line, the number or scores we are getting and the number of chances we are creating is declining rapidly. Bringing 13 or 14 players back behind the ball is unnecessary and actually encouraged Meath onto us and brought them back into the game.
If you were to look for a positive you could say that at least the management are trying to address the defensive problems that were there last year and we didn't concede a goal chance in the game against a team that opened us up at will last year, but again a league game in feb in Navan is a different story to a championship game in Croke Park.

ONeill, OGrady & Doyle were excellent, the half forward line were very very poor. I am not writing off the team or even the management team in February, I will reserve judgement till the end of the year, Our system is a work in progress, we are only playing it a few weeks. It needs major and immediate surgery, I believe we have a few weeks break before the next game which is a good thing, Going down to Div 3, like Armagh last year, would be a disaster. The work we get done in the next three weeks to get the system sorted and for players to stand up will decide our league fate and will tell us more about the merits of the management.

Ogie wrote:

Bad News Baba wrote:

They can say what they like, there are plenty of lads on here with egg on their face. It's not rocket science to see who they are and also certain people in the local media.

I said last year he was a spoofer, I let the year finish and this one start to see if he could manage any semblance of a game plan or tactical awareness and as I thought he he is useless.

We'll have the "give him time" merchants on here soon alongside the "its only the league" flag wavers. They all know they backed the wrong horse. That taste in their mouth is reality.

Harvest time.

When it comes down to it, at the end of the day, it's always the meeja's fault

I"ll point you in the way of "the supporter" and his hachet job on the previous manager the night before the vote. Even now when you read his pieces he gets a few digs in but his endorsement of Ryan makes him look like a clown.

Flamingo wrote:

On the game itself i really think Mulhall needs to be right in on top of the goals because when he actually has time to think it often doesn't end well. I'd like him just acting on instinct close in and being a pure finisher.

100% agree, although when Smith is back I'd see him as the best man for that role. At that point it's a case of Mulhall getting the nod purely for left sided frees. He seems to think he's a playmaker out the field - I don't know who is encouraging this (presumably Ryan) but he just isn't cut out for that role.

going to try and remain positive (feckin hard after last few weeks!!) but our problem is still midfield area being too slow. im going to include the half forward line in this group too. chalky, leper, paidi and flats slow things down too much. if we're going to insist on playing the way we are then we need these four being replaced by the likes of the cribbins, dan Flynn etc. also think the daryel Obrien experiment isn't working properly. don't know why murno isn't in there instead of him. Obrien reads the game and gives it his all but murno does all this and has the extra bit of gas too. if I was manager I would probably go with something along the lines of:

                    donnellan
fitzy               Kelly        Ollie
                    murno
Bolton            fergal c    doyle
       moolick    dan Flynn
  cribbin (either of) fionn
                Kelly
      mullhall     podge

still gives u o'grady, flats, leper, tomas, paidi, chalky etc on the bench.