Suggestions for Next Management

Flanagan's by the looks of it

Have I missed something?
How come no-one is talking about Flanagan being announced as favourite?

lily92 wrote:

Have I missed something?
How come no-one is talking about Flanagan being announced as favourite?

it's good news. Donaghy as his number 2 maybe?

Massively important point made on here. I don't see how you can have a process where some key people who got rid of, or overlooked certain people in the past can be central to picking the new man.

At this stage Geezer will not be moving, so we may forget that one. So, whoever comes in we need to row in. I am saying this in the sense that it may be Flanno so I'd hate to think he won't get backing from the county.
I'd love an older hand in with him. As I keep saying Ger Brennan wasn't rated highly but he has an ex intercounty manager in McCartan, plus Moyna who has all the Dubs experience with him.

Whoever comes in needs a proper backroom team. It is starting from a low point but if we get up from Div 3 and win Tailteann with a young squad then we can build from there.

But, no matter what we want we know that there will be penny-pinching and lack of vision. And we can scream about loser mentality, etc here BUT deep down we all know it's more than likely to pan out that way.

I do hope I'm wrong and that we get some backers in to help us. We do need it.

I don’t mind Flanno at all and think he would be a decent choice. I hope we have a proper process though, and give applicant's the courtesy of even a phone call once the process is complete. I also hope we give it to the person with the best cv too and the most qualified person and don’t go into the process with the decision already made.

One of the main criteria will be cost. How much does the new man want. If he wants the best and asks us to pay for it, he'll be binned quicker than old chip paper.

I'd love to see O'Rourke with Flanno that's the dream ticket for me as McGeeney isn't going to come back here to interviewd by one of the people who shafted him.

Thus the selection process is already flawed from the start. Typical Kildare.

can't believe the bloke that got rid of McGeeney (and later didn't have the balls to sack Glenn) is anywhere near this process

It shows a lack of self awareness from the outgoing board members to think they should be the ones to handle the appointment.

Also, a lack of humility.

Rex wrote:

One of the main criteria will be cost. How much does the new man want. If he wants the best and asks us to pay for it, he'll be binned quicker than old chip paper.

I'd love to see O'Rourke with Flanno that's the dream ticket for me as McGeeney isn't going to come back here to interviewd by one of the people who shafted him.

Thus the selection process is already flawed from the start. Typical Kildare.

I think no matter what we talk about OUR mentality on a fans forum which is venting mostly, the cost will make or break some potential candidates.

Geezer will stay or take a break. Flanno with O'Rourke would be amazing. Malachy O'Rourke would be the best man around in all honesty, but I do doubt he'd walk from the Glenn. There may be a coaching compromise.

Flanno was in with Jack Cooney too and he is meant to be an excellent coach. But, even the optics of what is happening is awful.

"Mac Lochlainn raises a good point, and is clearly one of the many frustrated Kildare fans in the county right now, who just want to see fortunes take a turn for the better.

Mick Gorman is the current chairperson, and was in charge when Ryan was appointed as manager, but he is coming to the end of a five-year term.

This means that the although the responsibility of selecting the next manager is still within his powers, he won't be around to see how that individual performs Whoever is selected for the job will play a crucial role in turning things around, and if they get this decision wrong, then this dark period for the Lilywhites will only be extended".

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/kildare-manager-603551

Would I be correct in saying that the last time we appointed a manager we were a Div 1 team and still ended up with with a choice of Ryan, Burke and Cribben? Our current status is not likely to attract a stellar list of managers I fear.
Agree that the chairman should definitely not be involved.

Lads, to be honest, whether he's on the selection committee or not, the chairman will have the final say.

Like, surely people don't think that he will completely hand all authority over to this committee, who will appoint whoever they want? He will still be the person who will say yes or no. If the committee came up with a dream management team that will end up costing huge money, do we really think that, because he might not be on the selection committee, he will just (or has to) automatically accept whatever/whoever is proposed.

Bottom line is the chairman decides, directly or indirectly. I'm not arguing it's right, but it is the reality.

Look how far Kildare football has regressed under the chairman.

As difficult as it may be, the chairman should have the self awareness and humility to and realise it is time for change. A real Kildare person would,  the interests of the country are not being acted upon with this selection process.

Nobody gives a F**k anymore! That is the reality. It needs more than a change in manager.  They have have completley failed in a huge part of their mandate.

The new stadium is as unambitious as it gets for attracting corporate sponsors within the county. Did anyone even thing about that?

I do get your point, but if the independent selection committee got the Gaa equivalents of Pep, Jose and Jurgen at cost of 2 million per year (obviously an invented scenario, but I'm teasing out my argument), then the chairman should agree to it, knowing that the county will be bankrupt in a year?

Leaving aside the fact that we have seriously regressed under the current chairman, would any chairman say yes to this?

I get no pleasure in saying this, but a chairman emptying the coffers to get a dream team is arguably as irresponsible as what's happening now.

Of course we can do a lot more on the sponsorship end, and the merchandise, and the clubber, and the corporate, and a dozen other things being botched at the minute.

There has to be a happy medium, as in generating income to pay for the stuff we need, and that's obviously the way to go, but any chairman could not realistically step back from the process entirely.

While I do get the point your making re financing a new senior management team. Wouldn't that be all looked into when it comes down to seriously whittling down candidates to one or two?
Thats just common sense adding up the numbers etc but we can't expect to get out of division 3 or be competitive without spending. Look at the money Galway have put into their teams the last number of years alone. S&C for Kildare was a huge problem you could see it this year.

I think your missing the bigger picture with the finance argument side linning it a bit.
The major major flaw is that the current chairman cannot be the best person to look for candidates when he was involved in voting against a potential candidate, (McGeeney depending on Armagh) overlooking another 1 (Burke) previously and appointing and keeping the most previous management (Ryan).
Just for a second imagine that Burke genuinely wanted to apply or McGeeney for that matter if Armagh where gone next Saturday. Would they bother applying or throwing their name forward for consideration knowing the man you have had dealings with in the past is involved in the process? but in actual fact he wont be even working with you in the long term overseeing your tenure.
Its crazy. It is flawed. Why would you even bother throwing your name forward as you know your probably not getting a fair chance like all other candidates.

Therefore, it is Kildare in the long run who will be at a major disadvantage as its limiting the potential in attracting the best person for the job.
The fact is that we shouldn't even be having this arguement at all. Its lunacy. It should be a fresh start the new Conleths, new manager, a bit of excitment, optimism and now its like here we go again. The only part he should be involved in is to signature/ sign off on the best person for the job thats it.

The bigger picture

Thelillywhites wrote:

While I do get the point your making re financing a new senior management team. Wouldn't that be all looked into when it comes down to seriously whittling down candidates to one or two?
Thats just common sense adding up the numbers etc but we can't expect to get out of division 3 or be competitive without spending. Look at the money Galway have put into their teams the last number of years alone. S&C for Kildare was a huge problem you could see it this year.

I think your missing the bigger picture with the finance argument side linning it a bit.
The major major flaw is that the current chairman cannot be the best person to look for candidates when he was involved in voting against a potential candidate, (McGeeney depending on Armagh) overlooking another 1 (Burke) previously and appointing and keeping the most previous management (Ryan).
Just for a second imagine that Burke genuinely wanted to apply or McGeeney for that matter if Armagh where gone next Saturday. Would they bother applying or throwing their name forward for consideration knowing the man you have had dealings with in the past is involved in the process? but in actual fact he wont be even working with you in the long term overseeing your tenure.
Its crazy. It is flawed. Why would you even bother throwing your name forward as you know your probably not getting a fair chance like all other candidates.

Therefore, it is Kildare in the long run who will be at a major disadvantage as its limiting the potential in attracting the best person for the job.
The fact is that we shouldn't even be having this arguement at all. Its lunacy. It should be a fresh start the new Conleths, new manager, a bit of excitment, optimism and now its like here we go again. The only part he should be involved in is to signature/ sign off on the best person for the job thats it.

The bigger picture

Nailed it!

Y'know, taking the above post into consideration, you can see how Flanagan is the best option for the chairman. Saves face as he exits.

edit - considering all that has happened and with us in Div 3, I think Flanagan is the best appointment. I wasn't aware of what he did with Summerhill. Also he played under McGeeney and probably learned a lot off him. He's a natural link.

Mick can always go back to his Hollywood acting career

lily92 wrote:

Y'know, taking the above post into consideration, you can see how Flanagan is the best option for the chairman. Saves face as he exits.

edit - considering all that has happened and with us in Div 3, I think Flanagan is the best appointment. I wasn't aware of what he did with Summerhill. Also he played under McGeeney and probably learned a lot off him. He's a natural link.

Brian Flanagan with McGeeney as a coach/ type mentor scenario in the backroom would be ideal.

Say if McGeeney wanted to take a break after this year. The link is there Flanagan played under McGeeney and it makes sense to make up for Flanagans lack of senior intercounty experience.

Thelillywhites wrote:

While I do get the point your making re financing a new senior management team. Wouldn't that be all looked into when it comes down to seriously whittling down candidates to one or two?
Thats just common sense adding up the numbers etc but we can't expect to get out of division 3 or be competitive without spending. Look at the money Galway have put into their teams the last number of years alone. S&C for Kildare was a huge problem you could see it this year.

I think your missing the bigger picture with the finance argument side linning it a bit.
The major major flaw is that the current chairman cannot be the best person to look for candidates when he was involved in voting against a potential candidate, (McGeeney depending on Armagh) overlooking another 1 (Burke) previously and appointing and keeping the most previous management (Ryan).
Just for a second imagine that Burke genuinely wanted to apply or McGeeney for that matter if Armagh where gone next Saturday. Would they bother applying or throwing their name forward for consideration knowing the man you have had dealings with in the past is involved in the process? but in actual fact he wont be even working with you in the long term overseeing your tenure.
Its crazy. It is flawed. Why would you even bother throwing your name forward as you know your probably not getting a fair chance like all other candidates.

Therefore, it is Kildare in the long run who will be at a major disadvantage as its limiting the potential in attracting the best person for the job.
The fact is that we shouldn't even be having this arguement at all. Its lunacy. It should be a fresh start the new Conleths, new manager, a bit of excitment, optimism and now its like here we go again. The only part he should be involved in is to signature/ sign off on the best person for the job thats it.

The bigger picture

I couldn't agree more. Hit the nail squarely on the head. Gorman should have no role to play in this expect to recuse himself from the entire process. His ineptitude and gross negligence of Kildare GAA removes any legitimacy from him to continue as chair even in the short term. 

If funding is required than it is incumbent on the  Co Board to seek alternative sources for that income working in tandem with the supporter's club

I hope that the new county board chair, executive and manager can use the opportunity to reset and bring a professionalism and openness. There is a lot of stellar work in Kildare GAA including county board, but there is huge apathy in all realms of Kildare GAA now, it has got a lot worse in the past 2 ,or 3 years, people are falling away, just look at the attendance at matches. Most Kildare matches could be played in Hawkfiekd or Athy. Never has there been a more "them and us" feeling. Why the hell is the Kildare senior team locked away, why are there no open- days or family days to meet the players. Kids love this and players are always willing to facilitate this. Why is there no information to supporters about plans, training progress, injury updates etc. we don't even get information on the county panel FFS.Then county meetings that are quicker than sex. Club delegates don't engage or ask questions and then we wonder why we are f**ked.

https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/brendan-crossan-everything-about-kieran-mcgeeneys-journey-has-been-hard-earned-7Z7OC737MRADNCP5KLDURLXD2U/

A nice piece on McGeeney including his time in Kildare. It's a little reminder to those who voted McGeeney out, the mind boggles.

Too good for McGeeney sure I remember chatting a parent of one of the lads on the panel few years ago and some of them didn’t rate Jack O’Connor!!! Same as some on here if I remember….

Am I the only one confused as to why Kieran Donaghy has been mentioned as a potential manager here?

If he wasn’t coaching with Armagh under McGeeney would he have come into the equation at all? Unproven number 2 with no management experience, from a coaching point of view it seems a bit Cian O’Neilly minus the All Irelands and home-grown aspect.

Also, can’t understand the obsession some people have with McGeeney here. No doubt he did a great job with us before and gave us some unbelievable days out and memories, but you can’t appoint managers based on what they did 12-14 years ago.

You also need to look at his overall record with Armagh and not be blinded by the last 2-3 years.

1st year; knocked out of Ulster in the 1st round and won 1 game in the qualifiers against Wicklow before being knocked out by Galway. Promoted from Division 3 that year too in fairness.
2nd year; again knocked out in the Ulster 1st round by Cavan before managing to lose to Laois twice in the qualifiers after being relegated from Division 2.

If any of our last few managers produced a return like that how would it have gone down on here?

Extend it to 5 years and things look a little better but it’s not exactly a resounding success either.

3rd year; knocked out of Ulster in the 1st round by Down, goes on to beat Fermanagh, Westmeath, Tipp and ourselves in the qualifiers before a hammering against Tyrone in the All Ireland Quarter finals. This came after finishing 3rd in Division 3 that year which all things being equal would have led to some fans looking for him to be sacked before the championship even started if that was Kildare.

4th year; knocked out of Ulster in the 1st round by Fermanagh (anyone noticing a theme here?) before going on to beat Westmeath, Sligo and Clare in the qualifiers before losing out to Roscommon by 6. Topped Division 3 at least earlier in the year.

5th year; beat Down in the Ulster championship 1st round before losing to Cavan in a replay. Followed by an impressive enough qualifier campaign in which they beat Monaghan by 8 before losing to Mayo by 1 – didn’t advance far but a pair of very tough draws there to be fair. Finished 5th in Division 2 that year which for a newly promoted team who had spent 2 years in Division 3 isn’t too bad really.

That’s 5 years in charge, 1 provincial championship win and 1 All Ireland Quarter final appearance. Can people honestly look at that record and say if any of our recent managers replicated it here in Kildare that they wouldn’t have been looking for the manager to be sacked at some stage?

The Covid years I can give a bit of a pass to – beat Derry in 2020 before being hammered by Donegal. Hammered Antrim in 2021 before losing to Monaghan. Kinda hard to judge anyone off those 2 years in isolation I feel.

Listen the last 3 years for Armagh have been great. But how many counties would have been willing to give a manager that length of time to reach that level of performance? 5 years to win a provincial championship match and 9 years to reach a provincial final – up until then Armagh and Antrim were the only 2 teams not to reach an Ulster final. 5 different winners of Ulster during McGeeney’s time with Armagh before they even reached the final.

If he’s being afforded that sort of time with Armagh, and able to work without the pressure of needing instant results and instant improvement then it’s hard to see why he’d walk to come back to us.

I know people are going to say I’ve an agenda against him and all that but all I’m doing is trying to compare his first few years with Armagh to how results would be received here under previous managers. Can anyone crying out for McGeeney to come back honestly defend his first 3 or first 5 years in charge of Armagh and justify how a Kildare manager should have been afforded a further 3-4 years to improve things?

If it does turn out to somehow be McGeeney then I’ve no issue with that provided all avenues were explored and we’re not just doing it for nostalgia’s sake or because he has unfinished business here. It would definitely be an improvement but at the same time I wouldn’t be expecting us to win anything straight away if at all to be honest.

I’d love to think we’re going outside the box again like we did with the Jack O’Connor appointment – not outside the box in terms of a proven manager but in terms of the calibre and CV of the appointment.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice, James Horan, Malachy O’Rourke, Pat Gilroy. Even if they don’t reply to a phone call or text the least that should be done is to let them know we’d be interested.

Were any of the current selection committee involved in the process that saw multiple All Ireland winner Jack O’Connor appointed? If so, I’d have a little bit of hope that it won’t be a complete disaster.

The safe option is Flanagan. And as safe options go it’s a damn good option based on what he’s done with the U20s and the current age profile of the team and where he’d be building from. The safe alternative is Burke if Roscommon move quickly on him over the next few weeks which again isn’t a bad option.

After that it’s hard to know where they might look. A number 2 with no previous management experience is a risk and no matter how big a name that person might be it would be a step into the unknown.

Malachy O’Rourke or James Horan might not answer a call, even if they did, they might laugh down the line at you, but they should at least be asked.

The Jack O'Connor appointment wasn't the coup that people are making out it was. He was living in Kildare, his lads were playing with Moorefield and he was very well connected in Moorefield. Moorefield who have a significant presence on the county executive.