James Kavanagh leaves Kildare panel.

Wow umpire I'm suitably chastised. It's a forum with different views, get over it. I accept fully your point on Doyle who is a cracking player. How about the other points I raised about older players on the panel with no prospect of makiing an impact?

Good luck to the lad. Family life is far more important than a game of football. Petty closing line there Lucky. Him meta hasn't been a favourite of may Kildare managers. None of the others got him playing the way McGeeney did tho. Bottom line is - they don't have to get on, they just have to work together.

I've heard that there 5 or 6 lads gone off the panel. Mark Scanlan, Paddy Dunne, Tommy O'Neill, Andrew McLoughlin, Karl Ennis, Des Lawler, Ciaran Fitzpatrick and Ciaran Kelly.

Is that enough change for you Mourof?

Oh Jaysus BTA you are so wrong, Jimmers and every player do need to get on with the manager in order for the relationship to work, as regards the list you mentioned, most of them are really no addition to the set up, O'Neill and Dunne are the only two worth keeping.

Out of those players mentioned only Mac got regular games in recent years. Karl Ennis was a great servant but his inter county career was blighted by injuries.

Was finding it hard to be optimistic about this year and going to be even harder now.

Probably our most natural attacking player in a sense he can create for others and is both a great goal finisher and point taker.

Have heard that lads like Smithy and TOC loved to play with him because he brought them into the game alot with his passing.

We have few players that when they are on top form they can contribute so much in one game.

I hope some serious attempts were made to keep him in the panel.

If not then its another example of geezers lack of appreciation for natural talent and flair.

Sad to see him go, on his day he was unplayable and he was one if not the only Kildare player who "saw" things differently, he had something a little bit "je ne sais quoi" as the French would say.. He frustrated and amazed me in equal measure, which brings me onto the down side as he never realised his potential because when he wanted he could be as good as anybody.

The buddies thing is not worth saying as in any team there will be lads who don't get on, but will do anything for that team mate while they are playing together. McGeeney always played him when he was available, that says enough for me. He got him out of two holes, once against Cavan and the other by winning the ball back against Limerick. HIs goal against Meath was his highlight but as has been mentioned he scored a wonderous point against Donegal. I was right in line with it and it started 10 yards outside the post on the wrongside before curling in form the sideline.

Best of luck to him, hopefully he will wear the Jersey again one day.

That's ur own opinion Lucky. Not every intercounty is best friends with his manager. I can name a few others who only have what you'd call a 'working relationship'. But I wont, because its irrelevant.

Kavanagh was a below average forward until Geezer & Grimley arrived. He got nominated for an all star & has only telly played in patches since. There's no doubt he has talent but Kildare haven't always been able to rely on him to perform.

All the guys who have left the panel have worked damn hard over their time there. Its unfair to say they were no addition. But this is definitely a huge transition. I expect the likes of Seanie Johnson, Fogarty, Dowling to step up this year. Geezer & Damo's overlap with the 21's will be significant.

As for Reynolds going to Leitirm. Wtf is that all about?

And being honest BTA your opinion is pretty poor when you say "best friends" !! FFS i am not talking about them getting in to bed with the manager, i am merely saying they have to respect one another while training and playing.....John Doyle was a great forward until Geezer and co decided to move him to midfield.
When you say not able to rely on him to perform...Oh My God i am wasting my time here with you.
As regards the other players who have left i never said they didn't work hard !!! but what is the point in keeping them if they are not up to it, Seanie and Fionn ?? JURY




BTA

Yeah whatever.....

Hear there may be a few more withdrawals. This could be the tip of the iceberg and we could very well end up sinking faster than the titanic in more ways than one.

KFSAM wrote:

Hear there may be a few more withdrawals. This could be the tip of the iceberg and we could very well end up sinking faster than the titanic in more ways than one.

Who else is thinking of jumping. DM if you want.

I thought Jimmers was probably our most naturally gifted player, sometime inconsistent, but was still an important player for Kildare, he provided me with many great football memories, I have nothing negative to say other than I wish him well and hope we see him again at some stage although I doubt it.

I reckon that we will see Jimmers back playing for Kildare, probably next year. I think he's a huge loss and look forward to that return because not many others in the Kildare squad are capable of doing with a football what he is. Wish him and his wife all the best with their first kid due next month.

http://www.daraghoconchuir.ie/blog.php?id=2415

ohluckyme wrote:

And being honest BTA your opinion is pretty poor when you say "best friends" !! FFS i am not talking about them getting in to bed with the manager, i am merely saying they have to respect one another while training and playing.....John Doyle was a great forward until Geezer and co decided to move him to midfield.
When you say not able to rely on him to perform...Oh My God i am wasting my time here with you.
As regards the other players who have left i never said they didn't work hard !!! but what is the point in keeping them if they are not up to it, Seanie and Fionn ?? JURY




BTA

You're right Johnny was a great forward. But excelled at midfield even more. Wasn't his one and only All Star at midfield?

A lot of negative stuff on here at the moment, I actually (honestly) believe we will do well this year, and on another positive note, the great JD is back for another year, (our greatest ever player in my time in my humble opinion).

Best of luck to Jimmers. One of the best forward we had and hope to see him back some day.

On a side note I love the way people come in here and leave their comment on how things are looking bad for us already this year. We have not even kicked one ball. If you belive we are not going to do anything these year save yourself some time and money and dont go to the games.

I for one am looking forward to this year. Over the last few years now we have not had a midfield partnership to pick from and ended up moving players to fill in this position and they filled it well (Doyle and Foley) but if we can get Flynn and Lynch back playing like they were before getting injured I believe that will be a huge plus for us.

If that happens that will free up Johnny to go back into the forward line where hopefully the likes of Smithy can keep up his upward trend he showed last year and the likes of Dowling, Johnson and Fogarty can settle into the team along side Callaghan and O'Flaherty.

The backline would then be strenghtened with Foley moving back beside Hank and Kelly. The halfback line of Bolton, O'Flaherty and Eoin Doyle would not be too bad either.

With all them players fit we would still have Paudi, Rob Kelly, O Connor and Chalky to name only some that could push these team on more.

The mangement side of things has changed and I think all on here agreed that Ryan's appointment was a good one so lets just see what happens. A bit of luck on the injury front and bit on the field and who knows what could happen. Not saying it will but I for one will be there hoping it does.

Johnny Maher wrote:

ohluckyme wrote:

And being honest BTA your opinion is pretty poor when you say "best friends" !! FFS i am not talking about them getting in to bed with the manager, i am merely saying they have to respect one another while training and playing.....John Doyle was a great forward until Geezer and co decided to move him to midfield.
When you say not able to rely on him to perform...Oh My God i am wasting my time here with you.
As regards the other players who have left i never said they didn't work hard !!! but what is the point in keeping them if they are not up to it, Seanie and Fionn ?? JURY




BTA

You're right Johnny was a great forward. But excelled at midfield even more. Wasn't his one and only All Star at midfield?

Left half forward.

You would have to think at 28/29 that he'll not be back, which is a shame and he will be a big big loss next year. As many people have alluded to he has been involved in many of kildares "big moments" over the past couple of years.

I would imagine his constant rotation between any of the "three" lines of the forward line over the past few years has caused some frustration which was reflected in his inconsistent performances. Maybe the management need to look at this for future reference - maybe Jason Ryan could have got the best of him like he has done with arguably average Wexford forwards on paper.

Best of luck to the lad, wouldnt begrudge him togging out for Galway, he would be welcomed with open arms there having captained Jarlaths in his school days, would be an awful pity to see him playing well against Kildare wearing the maroon of Galway though!!

I agree with all the plaudits extended to James Kavanagh on this forum.He got some vital scores for us.Only for him the McGeeney train may have been derailed against Cavan in Newbridge before it got Started.I think some of the critisism leveled at the panelists who have droped off is very unfair.last year was bad no doubt ,however the spirit of the team was probably broken by the appaling bad decisions against us in 2010 and 2011.Tomas Connors legitimate goal wouldhave put us six points up on Donegal who would not have come back from that with the style they were playing that year.We have had the highest number of long term injuries of any County over the last two years.It is fair to say that most of those playes have not been able to get back the form that they showed prior to being injured and this has left a huge gap to fill.It would be the same for any County.I would love to believe that there were a few more young JDs ,Glen Ryans or Dermots that no one only their own clubs know about.I am around along time and unfortunately have heard all this before.Let us hope we can make a good start to the league and put in a few good performances.I thought it was the end of the world when we lost to Wicklow in Croker in 2009, then look at the football we played in 2010 and 2011.
Paulus

Jimmers leaving the panel is no surprise to anyone who knows anything about this current panel. Things were not gelling between him and the manager for a while and something had to give. Time to move on from this but I reckon that Jimmers will be back in 2014.

The Reynolds move is bizzare as was the Celbridge hurler to Tipp Kenny I think. Far way hills are always greener but I reckon these two are in for some shock.

Best of luck to him, when he was good he was very very good but sadly that was too few times, pity gaainfo.com hasn't updated players stats since 2009

Gaainfo seems to be a part-time operation but has been the closest resource there is to plugging a big gap in GAA statistics. GAA trails a long way behind other sports in that regard. If I didn't have a full time, time-consuming job I would love to set up something in competition to Gaainfo as a labour of love rather than a commercial operation.

Ogie, I'd love to know where journalists get their historical stats from in the absence it seems to me of any central database or resource, particularly in regard to player records.

Regarding Kavanagh, I have mixed views about this. I regard him as the most naturally talented forward Kildare has produced since Larry Tompkins and I have been watching Kildare since the late 70's. And yes, I would put him above Johnny Doyle in that regard (though Doyle has maximised the return on his talent more). Jimmers has given us some wonderful memories watching Kildare, particularly in his pomp which was around 2009 and 2010, but he seems to have been something of a lost soul the last 2 years. While his loss is a blow I think we needed a shake-up in our forward play this coming year and I think this is a development that gives us a chance to blow off some cobwebs an d give a chance to people like Seanie, Fogarty, Dowling, Eaton to stake a claim. I also rate Paul Cribben very highly and am excited by his availability again. According to the Indo this morning he is with the seniors. With or without Jimmers we needed a shake-up and to develop better attacking options than the high ball into Tomas which has become more prevalent in the last 18 months.

Finally, Jimmers is still relatively young at 28 and a year's break may do him good. Whether Kildare or Galway benefit from his return is questionable however. I have contacts who know Jimmers from school in Jarlaths and the Galway rumours are not without foundation - I was first told last Spring that Jimmers was unlikely to be playing with Kildare beyond 2012.

Crofter do you really think James kavanagh is a better forward than johnny doyle...... And don't say a natural forward because I don't understand what a natural forward means. For me a forward has one primary job and that's scoring and for me James wouldn't lace johnny's boots.
Dont get me wrong James is a fantastic player and we will miss him a lot this season

By natural footballer I mean a player who has an inherent ability or talent and a style that sets him apart, in the case of a forward someone who can produce off-the-cuff scores that come instinctively. I think it is possible through sheer hard work and training for someone with less of that inherent talent to out-perform the natural forward and many would argue John Doyle, though talented of course, would not be as instinctive as Kavanagh. Indeed I woul argue when you take his frees and penalties out of the equation that Johnny was not much more prolific. Certainly Kavanagh has a talent for goal scoring that Johnny did not have.

Did that make him a more important player for Kildare ? Certainly not - Johnny wins hands down for consistency of performance and effort over a prolonged period. But I'd stand by the view that Kavanagh is more naturally talented.

Crofter wrote:

By natural footballer I mean a player who has an inherent ability or talent and a style that sets him apart, in the case of a forward someone who can produce off-the-cuff scores that come instinctively. I think it is possible through sheer hard work and training for someone with less of that inherent talent to out-perform the natural forward and many would argue John Doyle, though talented of course, would not be as instinctive as Kavanagh. Indeed I woul argue when you take his frees and penalties out of the equation that Johnny was not much more prolific. Certainly Kavanagh has a talent for goal scoring that Johnny did not have.

Did that make him a more important player for Kildare ? Certainly not - Johnny wins hands down for consistency of performance and effort over a prolonged period. But I'd stand by the view that Kavanagh is more naturally talented.

Hmm what a load of rubbish, in fact a load of bollox, natural talent would mean he could do it day in day out with his eyes closed, James Kavanagh blew more cold than hot and when the chips were down and the going got tough where was he?? Johnny Doyle kicked scores that some players can only dream about and he did it day in and day out, he never went missing and left it all on the field.

This is begining to remind me of the Kevin O'Neill thread.............