Kildare v Armagh

Rex wrote:

Badger85 wrote:

We. Can’t. Tackle.
We. Can’t. Tackle.
We. Can’t. Tackle.

We haven't been able to tackle since Grimley left McGeeney's set up. However it's such glaring problem now it's at farcical levels.

I reckon I could run through the middle of that defence and I ain't played competitive football in twenty years.

Since Aidan O'Rourke left I would say

Any interview from JOC? He did one before the game on Eirsport but nothing after. KFM get one? Dying to know what he said.

We couldn't keep CON away from a microphone now it's the opposite.

Taibi wrote:

Any interview from JOC? He did one before the game on Eirsport but nothing after. KFM get one? Dying to know what he said.

We couldn't keep CON away from a microphone now it's the opposite.

jack opposite not media friendly especially TOC there

Lot of constructive stuff on here on this topic I have big worries about Kildare GAA last few years I think Hawkfield is a great facility but I think a mentality of great illusions has been created within the walls including the underage setup where it is harder to get out of the system than into it, I remember talking years ago to a guy involved in juvenile development squads in Dublin where the underage managers had to drop 5 lads at the end of each year and bring in 5 new so created a ruthless mentality from players and management and players benefitted and could be brought in the future if they were worth their place....... something most of our lads have never tasted in GAA terms and just seem to love to have the inter county player status or something..... I also wud hope JOC wud come out and speak some truths and say ‘performance not good enough for players hoping to wear a Kildare jersey and their places on the panel are up for grabs’

i agree with above, one passage of play last night summed up the game for me armagh number 11 gets the ball on his own 35 meter line at least six kildare players are either passed or hit out of the way , he ran 50 meters as well not a glove laid on him thats how bad it is for me

The Clare team that humiliated Kildare last week could only manage 4 points today, how far have we fallen......

“I know the majority of that Kildare team well and most of them played well tonight like Kevin Feely, Daniel Flynn and the two Cribbins, Peter Kelly. I don't get great joy in it, but again it's Armagh night and fair play to them.”
CMcG -he the same as us no great joy in it

As far as the league is concerned, the good thing is that almost all teams are losing points and no two teams running away but the turn around from Kildare must happen immediately. Some harsh lessons have been handed out to Kildare and now is the time to get these lessons but only if they are corrected right now and put right. Kildare need to come to terms with being hit up, mouthed at and frustrated with biased referees, if they don't come to terms with that then forget carrying on

People saying the u20 all Ireland winners need time to develop and get stronger and bigger but all you have to do is look at Kerry. The same team those kildare lads beat have Diarmuid O Connor, Dara Moynihan both holding there own at D.1 and Masterson and Archibold gave them a roasting in the Gaelic grounds in Limerick. You look at Sean Bugler playing for Dublin and scoring 3 points and hes another man who didnt get a sniff of it against that u20 group. Rian O Neill another man the same age and tearing it up. The likes of Masteron, Jimmy Hyland, Darragh Ryan should be given game time and given every chance rather than picking the same lads who haven't done it for kildare in years

Mr.Anonymous wrote:

People saying the u20 all Ireland winners need time to develop and get stronger and bigger but all you have to do is look at Kerry. The same team those kildare lads beat have Diarmuid O Connor, Dara Moynihan both holding there own at D.1 and Masterson and Archibold gave them a roasting in the Gaelic grounds in Limerick. You look at Sean Bugler playing for Dublin and scoring 3 points and hes another man who didnt get a sniff of it against that u20 group. Rian O Neill another man the same age and tearing it up. The likes of Masteron, Jimmy Hyland, Darragh Ryan should be given game time and given every chance rather than picking the same lads who haven't done it for kildare in years

masterson very poor in both county finals last year matty Byrne outplayed ,was Not available due Garda work, now injured for other 4 weeks
Darragh Ryan not available last night with college and was tied up u20 last year

Jimmy hyland not physical enough intercouty not great last night

This current u20 team will produce more good footballers than 2018 team

micky murphy wrote:

“I know the majority of that Kildare team well and most of them played well tonight like Kevin Feely, Daniel Flynn and the two Cribbins, Peter Kelly. I don't get great joy in it, but again it's Armagh night and fair play to them.”
CMcG -he the same as us no great joy in it

That says it - Ciaran could talk about Kildare - did Jack O'Connor?

Does JOC care?
Does it matter to him what happens this year?
Does any of this interfere with his contract?

It's not all his fault but people on here were dismissing Glen as old fashioned/not a 2020 manager etc.
Did we get someone committed to toughening up this group, revolutionising the play, bringing new ideas to the table - to (almost) quote Michael Bailey at the TRibunal: "Did we fcuk!"

tomoneillandhissisteranne wrote:

micky murphy wrote:

“I know the majority of that Kildare team well and most of them played well tonight like Kevin Feely, Daniel Flynn and the two Cribbins, Peter Kelly. I don't get great joy in it, but again it's Armagh night and fair play to them.”
CMcG -he the same as us no great joy in it

That says it - Ciaran could talk about Kildare - did Jack O'Connor?

Does JOC care?
Does it matter to him what happens this year?
Does any of this interfere with his contract?

It's not all his fault but people on here were dismissing Glen as old fashioned/not a 2020 manager etc.
Did we get someone committed to toughening up this group, revolutionising the play, bringing new ideas to the table - to (almost) quote Michael Bailey at the TRibunal: "Did we fcuk!"

u might toughen up young players, older players not hope

If we don't go this way with 5 or 6 of the U/20
and more of the all ireland 20 team then what's plan B. I don't see any other way+ proper hard training and tackling needs to be Coached, if j o c or Ross can't do it bring in somebody that can. Move on the Lads that have failed us and get that desire to win Games back into the dressing room.If you have lads that don't give a fuck,how we played thats like a cancer in a dressingroom. I respect the Lads the put on a kildare jesery but if you're head is not in it,or you are not good enough you need to be moved on . J O C job is all them things that what he was brought in for. He still has plenty of time but he needs to get started ,and give it to the Lads what needs to change. All good Managers are very Good at this.I would rather go down fighting with 20 year olds bursting there ass to win for you than what we saw last night. Jack start to do you job,make the calls that needed.

Could never understand the antipathy towards Glen on here. He was the finest Kildare player I've ever seen, only JD comes close. He was a true leader on the field and the only time he managed a Kildare team he took them to an AI final. That imo was a very ordinary team with only a couple making an impact at senior level.
I think we made a bad mistake in choosing O'Neill in front of him. All too late now sadly.

Donnellan made some fine saves and he’s a long bit of credit due for the clean sheet but he needs to have a look at what the top keepers can do into a strong breeze.
Peter Kelly has heart of a lion but he’s so rash I’m surprised he isn’t in quarantine for coronavirus. Just can’t help but dive in and be sold on the first sign of a dummy solo.
Mick ‘Grady is a good full back when he’s up against a good or lesser full forward, when he gets a great full forward he looks like a fish out a water.
David Hyland was just halving one of those days yesterday where he couldn’t get into flow. Wonder did Geezer try hammer the hammer and stifle the captain as he just looked to run into Armagh traffic when ever he got possession. If he wasn’t captain I’d doubt he’d have made it out for second half.
Keith Cribben looked like an all star for the first 15minutes. Then Armagh pushed up on him and I’d say Luke Dempsey was saying to the JTB senior b manager he can have him for the season.
Kev Flynn never got going. Couldn’t get into it really.
A serious black mark against Shay Ryan was how he stopped after the bang on the puss from Clarke. Granted he was split open but you still want to see a fella suck it up. I thought he battled honourably other wise all night and is well worth his place and hopefully he’ll plough on till the ref blows it next time.
Feely looks like he’s got a load of tegral tiles in his legs the last year or so, he’s a long way off his 2017 form worryingly. Without sounding cruel I wonder was it that in 2017 he was just coming away from the pro athlete life he still had that muscle memory?
Paddy Brophy was one positive in a dark night, glimpses of what he could do while still a long way to go, I saw green shoots. Good sign when you’ve green shoots in Feb. dan Flynn needs to realise that he will be targeted given his talents but he needs to learn to get on with it and not let it impact his performance. Can mix the majestic with long periods of inertia. Jimmy Hyland hung out to dry last night with Glavin roaring at him all to basically come back and stand in the left half back position in the first half. Think the better team we play against the better he will play as his size goes against him playing in dogfights like that. Pick horses for courses. That conditions last night was not his course.
I’ve given up wondering what Niall Kelly does to merit a jersey since he dipped in 2015.
Liam Power gave away 3 frees in the time he was on. About 6 minutes. But I’d credit him for getting the at amount of contacts onto Armagh lads in that time as there were lads on for 76 minutes who can’t claim 3 contacts. The tackle technique can be coached. The intent to get contact cannot. That comes from within.

Spot on summary, Papabear. Jack Robinson kicked a nice point when he came on however he lost possession in his own corner at one point and made zero effort to tackle to win it back, he backed off and allowed the defender do what he wanted. The lad has great potential but he needs to up his workrate massively. Early days, heavy pitches, etc but I've been very disappointed with him.

Papa Bear good synopsis think Ciaran Whelan read it too taibi you right I taught Jack Robinson point summarised a lot of things bad about us he was happy to pop it over and say he got a score when we getting hammered where the ruthless player wud of powered on and attempted to make a goal chance same as Paul Cribben’s early point

Good post Papabear.

Mark Donnellan and Paddy Brophy were our best players. Donnellan's kick-out's can improve but there's very little movement out the field most of the time. Adam Tyrell looked good going forward when he came on but he let an Armagh forward walk round him which lead to a score.

Nothing went right for Kevin Flynn or David Hyland but they deserve another chance. Paul Cribbin did some good things but went missing for long periods. Dan Flynn was very frustrating. A couple of times he thought he was fouled and stopped playing but the ref didn't give a free. He's got to persevere a lot more. He'd terrify defenders if he ran hard at them.

I think it was a mistake by management to start Jimmy Hyland and Niall Kelly. Conditions clearly weren't going to suit them and we needed scrappers. If Eoin Doyle was available I'm amazed he didn't come on. I'd also like to see Darragh Ryan get a chance as I think he has the right attitude. I also think it was a mistake to move Feely to full-forward early in the second half. The tactic of kicking long balls into him never works for us and left us short at midfield.

The next match against Roscommon is massive and we really need a win. We really need players to stand up and be counted now.

What's the story with Neil Flynn Folks.. He's gone back so much, from what was so promising.. not on his own mind ya.

First game I've had a chance to see since Tyrone last year and it was just as depressing.

We have a lot of problems but the absolute number one for me is work rate. A lot of posters have mentioned our poor tackling, and they're right, but you're more likely to get tackles in if there's concerted pressure going on the opposition when they have the ball.

Armagh did it to us in the first half; they had us pinned in our own half and worked like madmen to make it hard for us to work the ball out. It's partly an effort and attitude thing and partly an intelligence thing; they pushed up on us in an organised way, corralling lads on the ball towards the sidelines.

Some difference in the second half, when they could do as they pleased. Some of our lads work hard at times but some don't want to know once we've lost possession. That lack of application spreads through the team like cancer until our confidence is completely shot and we start giving away stupid frees and bitching to the ref.

This needs to be the absolute priority for us for the rest of the league. I would go so far as to judge players on their workrate and the amount of tackles they get in because until we fix this we're at nothing.

It's possible for us to fix this - think back to Mayo 2018 when we we laid into them like mad men and everyone played their part. That game swung on little tackles, like the interception Niall Kelly got. When our players work together like this we're a very decent football team. When they don't, which is more often than not, we're a sorry collection of individuals, so easy to rattle and then outplay.

It's long past time to start dropping lads who aren't producing when we don't have the ball, no matter how big the name or how much a stalwart they are.

Excellent post Ohtoohtobe, but this fix will need to be initiated from the line and does anyone honestly see that happening?

Right, after a couple of days to detox this latest shitshow from my system, I'm back for more.

The way results have fallen and games have lined up for us, we can still turn this around.

But the players need to knuckle down for the next fortnight and go at the last four games with all guns blazing. There's a reason we're all in this division – teams are prone to disastrous concentration lapses and you can be sure there will more unexpected results.

The players just need to put to work in, keep the concentration and application during the games and we can still be in the shake up. Not saying we're going to be promoted all of a sudden, but there's still a lot to play for.

There is definitely, 100% more in them than the shite we've seen the last two games. Time to dig in and start playing with some pride a la summer 2018.

Everyone knows that the lads are able to do it, but we all know that they don't seem to be able to do it regularly. Even decent teams you know roughly what to expect.
Very disappointed as we would have expected some kind of response after Clare.

Also in terms of players Dan Flynn does get targeted and he does get bottled up, so why oh why are we not using him to drag bodies out of the danger area.
He has the pace to come around on the loop and get involved again and blast through.

The lack of discipline and concentration in defence is driving me to distraction. Has there ever been a player to go from the sublime to the ridiculous as much as Peter Kelly.

Great block on Saturday night, then in second half commits himself stupidly – which he's done before – and lets forward in for handy point. And the braindead fouling we're doing... Jesus, stand up the attacker and when he goes to play it, get a hand in. It's not rocket science.

Have to say, I've been critical of Mark Donnellan's kickouts here before – and he's certainly no Rory Beggan in that regard – but he literally saved us from outright humiliation on Saturday. Fair play to him.

On the tackling topic, I was really impressed with how Monaghan coped with the Dublin attacks for most of the game. OK the last 10 minutes they seemed to fall off, but they had a clear strategy in defense and they carried it out pretty well for the majority of the game. When I compare that to what we attempted I mean it looks like a shambles.. No strategy and more worryingly, no sign to able to do the basics i.e. tackle, aggression or physicality.....