Leinster championship 2013

Good post HG - it's obvious we need a solid defensive system. Our defensive play has slipped a lot in the last couple of years.

I'd like to see our half back line hold their positions more and not follow their men up the field. The top teams find it easy to move our backs out of position and run through the gaps. The system we tried at the start of the league looked promising but it was abandoned too quickly. I think if we stuck with that system and worked on it, we would not have been exposed as badly as we were on Sunday.

Here's a depressing thought I just had. Maybe we simply aren't good enough and are players are such a distance of the best no system can overcome it.

I'd have said the same about Donegal watching them against Cork in 2009 Tommy.. look at them now with largely the same team..

I wouldn't underestimate though the mental factor : McGeeney hasn't been able to work the magic that will make our lads believe in themselves. Only Micko has done that and even he only up to a point...

We're definitely not good enough to man to man against Dublin and beat them in a shoot-out. They have way more firepower than us.

Donegal and Tyrone have shown in the past that a good defensive system can strangle the life out of supposedly more talented teams. Both of these teams have top class tactically aware defenders implementing their systems. The Armagh team McGeeney played on would take the head off any forward who tried running through their half back line! I thought when he came initially that he would have a defensive gameplan but it's been the opposite. Maybe he doesn't think we have the right type of players to implement such a system.

It could be that Dublin have brought the game to a new level with their running style and nobody will be able to stop them. Fair enough if that's the case but I still can't help thinking we made it easy for them.

Certainly it appears we are not good enough, but there is no excuse to making it easy for other teams.

It's a pity the young players are starting of their careers with 2 demoralising defeats to Galway and Dublin. They really need a good run in the qualifiers to build up their confidence for the future as they could easily buy into the mentality that Kildare are not up to it when it really matters. Hyland, Cribben and Brophy all showed enough on sunday that they can handle the big occasion. Kelly, Flynn and Hurley need to play in their best positions which in my opinion is CrF, WF and midfield. The Louth game would be a good opportunity to try that out.

TommyKeegan wrote:

Here's a depressing thought I just had. Maybe we simply aren't good enough and are players are such a distance of the best no system can overcome it.

IF you take the last few years at underage level Dublin have been miles ahead of us everyone was getting excited bout our under 21s tis year but the reality is that 21 team we have is only a point better than the Dublin team whereas the dubs have been cleaning us the previous 5years and our minor team last year were hammered by them and they made niall Kelly look very average that day so I cant see us matching them for another 5 years at least.

Well let's just give up now then Centre Back!

Hope the players and management aren't as negative as this board !

Onwards and upwards lads - we're not in the worst shape in the country an another season in Division One will bring the young lads on again. I'm encouraged by the likes of Hyland and Cribben who only came into the side at the tail end of this league and both did relatively well against the Dubs. Cribben wa my Kildare MOM (although having watched again in full he wasn't on the ball quite as much as I'd thought from watching it live) while Hyland did as well as any debutant could be expected to do in the circumstances. I'm sure some more young lads will be blooded next winter.

Chins up lads - the future is not all that bad surely?

Don't agree that Kelly looked average last year in the minor game. In fact he and Brophy and Hyland looked as good as any Dublin player that night. What did look average was our style of play and our speed getting forward. Dublin played exactly the same way that night as they did last sunday and we couldn't handle it. The problem lies in the superior way the young players are trained and conditioned to play in Dublin. This has a lot to do with the way former players are coaching at under age and moving up with the players to U21 and then senior. Already it looks likely that Dessie Farrell will be the next senior manager having done so well at underage. We had Alan Barry for 4 years at U21! A lot of good work is being done with the development squads but are we training them to play with that explosive power and speed of movement that seems to work so well at the moment? I honestly believe the talent is there, just hope we can get the most out of them.

We are all in agreement basically here. We do need some new training methods.
And when it is clear to see some guys who were not slow looking slow then there is something wrong.

Also we need to be far more selective with the U21 coach and use it as a grade to groom for future management as Dubs did with Gavin and McGuinness with Donegal.

Even give Rainbow a go as sole manager and see how it goes?

Rainbow definatley not a good manager, he was with the under 21s before he went to carlow, some of the lads rainbow woukd have been there hero, but not anymore lads did not trust him sorry to burst the bubble on him

Ehm Flamingo 'we need to be far more selective'with the under 21 manager   Kieran Mc Geeney is the under 21 manager at the present time his first year in charge first leinster at the grade in years keep him there doing what he did this year its a no brainer.
Agree re: the pace issue but surely Julie Davis is the one that is responsible or that could tweak this.

If Geezer is not going to be kept on as manager of the seniors will he have any interest in managing the 21s?

wonder is it time mcgeeney made a change of fitness trainer try something different there we clearly aint up to the speed levels of Dublin or cork

If we look at speed and pace how many kildare seniors have got it cribbin, dan Flynn maybe one or two more and that is it, fast teams will always cause us problems .

Folks I am unable to go Saturday is it on the tv

I have to agree with the lack of pace currently in the team but to be fair two of our quickest defenders who would be regarded amongst the quickest in their positions in the country in Lyons and Doyle are currently injured and they would make a huge difference to our teams overall pace. There must be an overemphasis on endurance training because as previously highlighted fast players like Bolton are looking slow. Something obviously needs to be changed in the training methods as Croke Park is a pitch made for speedy players and carrying around too much bulk is going to slow you down.

bob12 wrote:

Folks I am unable to go Saturday is it on the tv

Looking at the fixtures, I'd say the hurling double-header is the most likely. Nothing confirmed yet though on GAA website.

whiteknight wrote:

Ehm Flamingo 'we need to be far more selective'with the under 21 manager   Kieran Mc Geeney is the under 21 manager at the present time his first year in charge first leinster at the grade in years keep him there doing what he did this year its a no brainer.
Agree re: the pace issue but surely Julie Davis is the one that is responsible or that could tweak this.

Missed my point. I'm saying groom a man who might actually be able to step up at some stage.
I know Geezer was manager this year but I'd sooner see him just keeping an eye on the U21's and have a good man in there managing it.
Like I said it has worked with Gavin and McGuinness. The problem was when things went well with Glenn Co Board seemed obsessed with just getting a player in to look after them and we slipped back a lot.

And we do have lads like Cian O'Neill and Dave Mathews from the county and with a fine reputation so there are good people out there.

Flamingo wrote:

whiteknight wrote:

Ehm Flamingo 'we need to be far more selective'with the under 21 manager   Kieran Mc Geeney is the under 21 manager at the present time his first year in charge first leinster at the grade in years keep him there doing what he did this year its a no brainer.
Agree re: the pace issue but surely Julie Davis is the one that is responsible or that could tweak this.

Missed my point. I'm saying groom a man who might actually be able to step up at some stage.
I know Geezer was manager this year but I'd sooner see him just keeping an eye on the U21's and have a good man in there managing it.
Like I said it has worked with Gavin and McGuinness. The problem was when things went well with Glenn Co Board seemed obsessed with just getting a player in to look after them and we slipped back a lot.

And we do have lads like Cian O'Neill and Dave Mathews from the county and with a fine reputation so there are good people out there.

I'd agree with this.

Alan Barry gets a lot of stick on here but he had no prior management experience as far as I know. He should have been given a development squad and allowed to gain experience through the system.

Someone like Murphy or Lacey would be ideally placed now to be given a role with the u21s with a view to grooming them as a future senior manager.

Agree KKK, the natural progression for B Murphy now has to be to the u21s.. B Lacey could be left with the Minors for another Year for experience..

Have to say I think Bryan Murphy managing the U21s and Brian Lacey taking over the minors sounds like an excellent idea.