Kildare Senior Footballers 2017

As the title suggests - what's our hopes and ambitions for 2017? What would we like to see improved/changed/ addressed.

What would be classed as a successful year?

Personally I'd like to see a few more new players in the panel, some of the U21s. A decent league campaign and to stay up in Division 2. Not to play all out defensive like we did at times this year. Not to be knocked out of the Leinster championship by anyone but Dublin and a decent run in the qualifiers to quarter final stage if possible.

We must hold onto Div 2 status. Won't be easy.
Leinster Final is always the minimum goal unless we draw Dubs before final.

Player and playing style-wise it's similar to last year unfortunately as I don't believe O'Neill really put his stamp on it. We've no really identifiable style of play and didn't really find a multitude of new players.

Haven't seen much club action but looks like Chris Healy might warrant a few starts?

I'm keeping fingers crossed that Cribbin and Flynn get fit. Hurley could offer a full forward option.

Would like to see some of the recent minors given their chance - McCormack (I know his time on the panel was short-lived this year), Luke Flynn, Mescall seem well placed to make an impact.

We're so far off the pace of the big teams that it's going to take some special management, coaching, conditioning and commitment from the players to get anywhere close to the top table again in coming years.

Will the 4 "Under 21" players who declined the invites this year get another invite & will any of them accept ?

Will likes of Callaghan Bolton and Padraig o Neil be in panel this year

kelf wrote:

Will the 4 "Under 21" players who declined the invites this year  get another invite  & will any of them accept ?

Certainly hope they are invited again and that they accept. Think we will see a lot of players at that age taking a year out before making the serious commitment needed at senior inter county level. Don't think a lot of the older players have much more to offer at this stage.
Wouldn't be surprised if the manager goes for a major clean out and brings in a lot of younger players. Its what a lot of new managers do in their 2nd year.
Survival in Div 2 would be a great start to the season. Finding a few mean, hard hitting defenders would be a bonus!

Where do we start with the panel do we start from scratch get players in to suit a system that we are going to play or keep the panel open with the same players coming and going. Maybe we dont have the pick to start from scratch but its up to the management team to sort out where we go. After last year I do have my doubts about O Neill and what he brings to the table time will tell.

I'm very worried about the year a head. I think we are in a worse position than we were this time last year. I'm not sure who's to blame maybe a combination of players and management.

jim wrote:

I'm very worried about the year a head. I think we are in a worse position than we were this time last year. I'm not sure who's to blame maybe a combination of players and management.

Jim - lets hope that it's the case that the darkest hour is before the dawn!

Don't see it being as grim as you but the blame for where we are is a combination of players and management. O'Neill was underwhelming in his first year - promotion notwithstanding - but the players really seem to lack fight/drive/hunger (insert words as appropriate) as well. You really have to hope that an influx of players from the underage teams will help transform the panel and while their impact will understandably take time, we have to go with them now and that in itself will be worth supporting.

jimmers wrote:

jim wrote:

I'm very worried about the year a head. I think we are in a worse position than we were this time last year. I'm not sure who's to blame maybe a combination of players and management.

Jim - lets hope that it's the case that the darkest hour is before the dawn!

Don't see it being as grim as you but the blame for where we are is a combination of players and management. O'Neill was underwhelming in his first year - promotion notwithstanding - but the players really seem to lack fight/drive/hunger (insert words as appropriate) as well. You really have to hope that an influx of players from the underage teams will help transform the panel and while their impact will understandably take time, we have to go with them now and that in itself will be worth supporting.

Good post Jimmers. I just don't have any faith in the manager .

Don't agree we're in a worse scenario than last year. Think the panel will be stronger next year.

Who will make it stronger O2B?

Managers shouldn't be judged on their first year. A new manager inherits a squad, often with older players and knows he has to give them a chance to prove themselves rather than going for a complete overhaul. The squad he inherits also has a style of play and beliefs which cant be changed quickly. In his second year a manager can afford to be more ruthless in player selection and tactics.
I agree that O'Neill was underwhelming in his first year and I would expect a big improvement this year. I would love to see a fully fit Cribben, Flynn, Feely and maybe Hurley involved as well as younger players like Sherry, Healy, McCormack, Mescal and Flynn. I think that player mix would make us more mobile and better able to play the modern game.
Div 2 will be a big help in improving standards as the level in Div 3 last year was really poor especially in the early rounds.

jim wrote:

Who will make it stronger O2B?

Well I'd hope a few of Hurley, Sherry, Mescal, McCormack, O'Grady, Luke Flynn and Healy will replace some of the weaker players who haven't really cut it. Plus having Daniel Flynn and Paul Cribbin fit.
But more importantly just the players we have developing. I was impressed with how much the likes of Jonathan Byrne and Fergal Conway had improved by the end of last year. We have a lot of young players of an age profile where they should be improving. Donnellan, Hyland, Feely, Kelly, Neil Flynn and all the players on the list above have their best years ahead of them.
On the debit side we might lose a couple of older players whose best years are behind them and a few players who have been panel members and little more.
So I'd say the 30-34 we end up with should be stronger on balance than what we had this year.

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

jim wrote:

Who will make it stronger O2B?

Well I'd hope a few of Hurley, Sherry, Mescal, McCormack, O'Grady, Luke Flynn and Healy will replace some of the weaker players who haven't really cut it. Plus having Daniel Flynn and Paul Cribbin fit.
But more importantly just the players we have developing. I was impressed with how much the likes of Jonathan Byrne and Fergal Conway had improved by the end of last year. We have a lot of young players of an age profile where they should be improving. Donnellan, Hyland, Feely, Kelly, Neil Flynn and all the players on the list above have their best years ahead of them.
On the debit side we might lose a couple of older players whose best years are behind them and a few players who have been panel members and little more.
So I'd say the 30-34 we end up with should be stronger on balance than what we had this year.

Totally agree O2B.........thought that myself this year about Johnny Byrne and Fergal Conway in particular. Conway really looked like a county footballer this year and was one of our best performers. He is also playing very well for his club. It just proves that we need to have a little bit of patience with these guys.....

As supporters we have probably been let down too often by this group over the last few years to have great faith in them. Every time we look to have turned a corner over the last few years we seem to come apart again in the next game. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not sure if this crop will ever develop into a Division 1 regular which has to be our ambition.

I'd hope to see some of the 2016 u21s involved like McCormack, Healy, Sherry, Mescal, Ryan and Luke Flynn. Houlihan is another I'd be hoping could step up after getting some experience this year. Kevin Feely can only improve as he gets more football under his belt. Moolick, Conway, Cribbin, maybe Hurley and possibly even Dowling (if he can find some consistency after a great showing in Castlebar) leave us fairly well stocked around the middle of the field. I'd like to see Eoin Doyle tried as a corner back where I think he could do a job for us. Johnny Byrne is another who has some experience of playing in the full back line who might be worth trying there. It has been said too often that we must be a nice team to play against from an opposition forward's point of view and that simply has to change if we're ever going to improve.

In the forwards we have been very dependent on Niall Kelly in the last two years. Other players need to step up here. Neil Flynn showed promise this year and McCormack and Healy are two possible newcomers who should be looked at. The forward unit this year looked very small and light and bearing that in mind I think we could make a fine full forward out of Daniel Flynn if only we could keep him fit. He terrorised the Tipp full back line down in Clonmel before his injury. Sherry is another who could add a bit more size and steel to the forwards.

I think I'm way too negative Kickingking I really hope I'm wrong but I just don't see next year being any better that the last 3.

While I agree it would be very unfair to judge a manager on year 1, the problem is he is starting from scratch in year 2 which in my opinion he shouldn't be, he should have stamped his authority on the team by now.

We are going into year 2 with no discernible game plan that we can call the "Kildare" way of playing.

If you look at other managers in recent years who have had success, they have all got traction in year 1 so they had something to build on in year 2, be it McGuinnes with the infamous game against the Dubs in 2011.

Closer to home, McGeeney after the Wicklow game had some very positive results in 2008, culminating in a good comeback against Cork in the quarter final.

Micko obviously had the 3 game saga with Meath in 1997 which gave the team great belief going into 1998.

We didn't have any moments or games like that this year so that is why I say we are starting from scratch at the beginning of 2017.

I wouldn't agree he's starting from scratch - for a start, there won't be the need to give every lad who ever kicked a ball in the county a run in the League. He has much more knowledge about the players. I would say he would be starting on intended game plan for the year much earlier and while there'll be a few in until the end of the O'Byrne Cup, the League panel will be much closer to what's intended for the year (U21 championship allowing).

It still might not work of course - but I always felt and said that while people would form opinions based on various prejudgements (confirmation bias) or genuine general impressions, an informed judgement could not be made until the end of 2017 Championship. I think there are no excuses by that stage.

But then, for some people, Kieran McGeeney was a failure in Kildare so everyone's measuring tool is different and a performance against Dublin is measured by many in exactly the same manner as a performance against Offaly etc.

But I think, while the performances were disappointing this year, that the management and coaching squad are further ahead starting next month or whenever than they were 12 months ago. That's a large bank of knowledge stored. Meanwhile, there are young, developing players that have improved under in the last two or three years under Jason Ryan and Cian O'Neill, Kevin Feely will have one full year of football behind him for the first time in three or four years, hopefully Dan Flynn will stay fit, Paul Cribbin.

To be fair, Micko's three-game sage with Meath in 1997 came in his second spell, so certainly not comparing like with like, while McGeeney's first year, the performance against Cork was okay without ever looking like they were going to win and they could easily have lost to Cavan and Limerick. And as I said early, in the end, he got fucked out anyway... McGuinness was assimilating an All-Ireland U21 winning team he had with elite operators like the McGees, Lacey and Murphy (you could add McFadden, I admit, I didn't rate him but he was unreal in 2011-2013.

2016 was a disappointment but in terms of the overall, it should not be a dead loss in developmental terms. If it is, then you'd be concerned.

Got to agree with most of that, Ogie.

At the end of the day though, the manager can only do so much. Whether we have the type of player that can lift us out of our current trough is the real question.

When I look on paper I always feel we have great potential with the likes of Doyle, Cribbin, Feely, D. Flynn, Kelly, N Flynn. Add Conway's form/improvement, sprinkle some stardust from underage (McCormack and Flynn the younger) and you've got to think we should be on an upward path.

Then I consider the flat (and at times spiritless, frankly) of Kildare teams at senior and underage level and I remind myself of 40 years of learning that tells me only one special group of Kildare players in my lifetime have had the necessary mix of skill, nerve, guts, all supported by good management, to be successful.

The underage teams have had some great days in Leinster but show too many of the same traits of the senior team when they get out of the province. Until we get the "guts" part right we are going nowhere.

Oh and we need to get that Buckley lad to take some time out from Mayo and coach our players in tackling/defending at all levels in the county.

Other than that I'm optimistic - roll on the O'Byrne Cup.

Crofter wrote:

Got to agree with most of that, Ogie.

At the end of the day though, the manager can only do so much. Whether we have the type of player that can lift us out of our current trough is the real question.

When I look on paper I always feel we have great potential with the likes of Doyle, Cribbin, Feely, D. Flynn, Kelly, N Flynn. Add Conway's form/improvement, sprinkle some stardust from underage (McCormack and Flynn the younger) and you've got to think we should be on an upward path.

Then I consider the flat (and at times spiritless, frankly) of Kildare teams at senior and underage level and I remind myself of 40 years of learning that tells me only one special group of Kildare players in my lifetime have had the necessary mix of skill, nerve, guts, all supported by good management, to be successful.

The underage teams have had some great days in Leinster but show too many of the same traits of the senior team when they get out of the province. Until we get the "guts" part right we are going nowhere.

Oh and we need to get that Buckley lad to take some time out from Mayo and coach our players in tackling/defending at all levels in the county.

Other than that I'm optimistic - roll on the O'Byrne Cup.

Agree with the bit in bold above all and would add ball skills. That to me was the biggest secret to Mayo's improvement after Horan/Buckley arrived. All their players became comfortable playing off both sides of their bodies and they all became excellent tacklers.

Everyone is obsessed with gameplans and tactical set-ups but none will work if you haven't completely mastered the skills of the game. You see that from Dublin to Barcelona to New Zealand.

Agree on both those posts

Lots of changes in the management team I hear. Anyone else hear anything?

jim wrote:

Lots of changes in the management  team I hear.  Anyone else hear anything?

Please do tell us.

One thing that struck me watching Mayo last Sunday was the fear of losing seemed to drive Mayo on, players who have suffered so much heartache in previous years had a resolve about them, that this year was going to be different - they emptied themselves in that second half, upped the intensity and really drove hard at Dublin.

We don't have that - how is that attitude cultivated in a team.
Did I see green shoots of this attitude in Castlebar this year, where I was so encouraged by the second half performance, where we seemed to say "we are not folding again here, and taking another tanking" - or am I delusional and did we just keep afloat against a team that took pity on us, knowing the game was won.
Is it down to individuals within the group, down to management, is it only born out of years of failure (in which case we should have it in abundance, given our record in recent years).

Did Ryan, Rainbow, Lacey, Nuxer, Early (and most of that 98, 00 team) always have this attitude or was it driven into them by Micko?