Kildare don't have enough 'natural' footballers to get the job done

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/kildare-are-crap-but-they-run-around-lots-and-take-lots-of-shots-2672638.html

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Sunday June 12 2011

Obviously their first priority was to win the match last Sunday, but in doing so the Kildare players left room for a more holistic interpretation of their work -- at least in the eyes of this viewer.

They struck me quite simply as a team trying to be the best it can be.

Now, in theory, every team is supposed to aspire to this utopian ideal. But in reality most don't, for all sorts of reasons. The most talented teams for example just set out to win whatever is on offer; they set out to be the best among their peers. They have the tools, they don't need to complicate their motivation any more than that. Lesser teams come apart because of a lack of belief, or ambition, or effort; or because of an excess of ego and selfishness; or because their management fails to inspire them.

This Kildare team reached the All-Ireland quarter-finals in 2008 and 2009; it reached the All-Ireland semi-final last year. They have come back for another shot at the title this summer and there they were again on Sunday, demonstrating that impressive resilience in the face of their own flaws. Once again they kicked wide after wide, 18 in total, and once again they didn't allow it to sap their conviction or unity or morale.

It is a thoroughly admirable trait in any team. This inability to convert all that possession into more scores will probably ensure that they fall short again this season. They just do not have the star quality in attack. They do not have any commanding figure in defence either. In fact, barring one obvious exception, they do not have a major individual talent in any line of the team.

But they have consistently tried to compensate for these deficiencies with enormous amounts of hard running and general graft. They are a proper team; the collective effort far exceeds the individual parts. Together they have been banging their heads against the wall of their own limitations. Together they are trying to be the best they can be.

And the one player who symbolises the integrity of that effort is of course John Doyle. It is a blessing for the manager of any team if his best player also happens to be the most conscientious worker too. It's hard to beat that kind of leadership; Doyle exudes the sort of moral authority that any serious team needs. If he is prepared to give of himself so much, then the players around him have no choice but to follow suit.

At half-time last Sunday Pat Spillane on RTE managed the considerable feat of ignoring the evidence of his own eyes. Doyle, playing at midfield, had been everywhere in that first half, scoring a point, providing the assist for another, then tracking back into the full-back line to help on defensive duties too.

But Spillane was dealing in received wisdom rather than the facts of the game: Doyle should be up in the forward line, he was being played out of position. Naturally enough, the pundit ended up eating his words at the final whistle, by which time Doyle had delivered another hugely influential performance. The evidence of his last two midfield displays suggests instead that vast tracts of his long career were wasted in the forward line when he could've been dictating the flow of a game further out the field.

Doyle was a picture of desolation after last year's defeat in the All-Ireland semi-final but the consensus then, as it is now, was that Kildare just didn't have enough 'natural' footballers to get the job done. The consensus is there for a very good reason: it's true.

But the same consensus surrounded the Armagh team during the years of its long, tortuous apprenticeship before it reached the summit in 2002.

The pivotal player in that Armagh team is the Kildare manager now. Kieran McGeeney believes that the world can be bent to one's will, if that will is sufficiently strong. He believes in dedication, in self-improvement and in the long haul. A player can make himself better if he applies himself; a team can make itself better likewise. He knows this because he did it himself and because he saw his Armagh team do it too.

And he has clearly imposed that worldview on this Kildare team. They are striving might and main to be better. Last Sunday they remained relentless in their application despite the escalating wide count, as if it were happening to another team and not them. Meath had much more natural talent in their front six and that didn't seem to spook Kildare either; they were too busy getting on with the game. They out-hustled Meath, outworked and outran them.

They are a running team. They burn a lot of energy, they have a high carbon footprint. They have loads of pace and they use it. But they showed glimpses too of a potential for more economy in their play: their very first score was simplicity in itself, moving the ball swiftly from goalkeeper to corner-forward in four passes.

Theirs is an ongoing project. But they will be dangerous opponents for any team in the rest of this year's championship. Their work-rate and force of will makes them so. They have the desire to improve; and they have the manager to persuade them that their limitations are there to be overcome.

thecouch@independent.ie

- Tommy Conlon

Am I being a bit precious or is that article from Tommy Conlon a load of BS?

I personally think it's great that the press keep peddling these lines out. It's just going to provide more motivation for Kildare to really give it one massive effort this summer. It would be worse if they were singing our praises and building us up for a fall. The media hacks won't decide who wins Leinster or the All-Ireland. Who cares what they think?

Wouldn't be a big fan of any of the stuff Tommy Conlon usually writes and this is no exception.

The way the media go on about it, you'd swear we were the only team in the country that's fit.

Quote :

They are a running team

Well we're hardly going to just walk around with the ball now are we Tommy?


Let them write what they want, we'll still be playing football come August and they'll need to find something new to say about us by then, lazy journalism, as soon as one person makes a comment about us, others just seem to agree and repeat the same rubbish again and again.

I doubt if Tommy Conlon has made the Kildare lads shiver in their boots because he said a few mean things.

We need to remember that players have zero respect for the the opinions of journalists, forum posters etc. Respect is the wrong word, actually. What I mean is the players have a job to do and are completely indifferent to what outsiders think.

If anyone thinks that this article is going to bother the Kildare squad, they're way off. The journalists can offend us mere mortals with their opinions all they like but we're not going out to play.

I don't see a whole lot wrong with the article

ballyboy wrote:

I don't see a whole lot wrong with the article

Neither do I. It's actually a fairly decent analysis, pretty accurate and plenty of compliments for Kildare too. But because he says something we mightn't necessary like or agree with - something that most GAA observers think too by the looks of things - we're crying. I'd say there's a bit of preciousness there myself.

I read in the Indo yesterday it was on the side of a page in the sports section about the Meath Kildare game, At the end it said it was a great game to watch by two average teams something like that it also said name & address of journalist on request

steviegenius wrote:

I read in the Indo yesterday it was on the side of a page in the sports section about the Meath Kildare game, At the end it said it was a great game to watch by two average teams something like that it also said name & address of journalist on request

Stevie I think that you are referring to a letter to the editor and the name and address of the contributor is with the paper. It was very obvious from the letter that the contributor was a Meath man.

I don't see much wrong with it either.

He says the inability to convert possession into scores is a major problem. That's not exactly something we weren't aware of already.

As for natural footballers, we do have a few alright. Tommy Conlon probably couldn't name too many of them I'm sure, but he is correct to say we don't have an abundance of them at the same time.

Other than that, he is actually quite complimentary.

While the article is fairly complimentary , I am sick of the absolute bull that is being written in the papers about us. While praising JD to the hilt ( and rightly so ) , the article is insulting to the likes of Gary Whyte , Emmett Bolton , James Kavanagh , Morgan O'Flaherty , Eamon Callaghan and a few others.You do not reach an AI semi-final with one footballer.

Everyone is blowing about this great Cork team but it has taken them donkeys years to win an AI and what's the betting that Kerry will not frighten the shite out of them ( again ) if they get them in Croke Park. They hadn't even a forward worthy of a place on the All Star team ( and rightly so ).If neither of these teams win Sam this year , most journalists will be left looking stupid in September. The Donegal manager was absolutely right yesterday.Sock it to them Jimmy.

I think that we are the new Tyrone in that the pundits cannot handle the arrival of a new team on the block.We are now the focus of most of their articles and the likes of Spillane etc. need someone to beat with a stick.When he was asked for one player to look out for this year , he came up with the Gooch.How f------g original. And then we have O'Rourke loving everything that moves in the Kingdom.Why doesn't he go to live there ?If it's not Cork , it's Kerry.If it's not Kerry it's Cork.I am sick of it.

As Keegan said once

I would really love it if neither Kerry or Cork win the All- Ireland.That is how I am feeling right now.

There is nothing in that article that any Kildare fan doesn't already know, particularly the fact that we don't convert enough chances into scores and against better teams that could well prove to be our downfall.
I think the problem with national journalists is that they don't see enough of one team, in comparison to a local journalist who would see their own county play week in, week out. Subsequently, these national journalists base their opinions (rightly or wrongly) on the game or two that they do see and that's why the likes of JD and Dermot invariably always grab the headlines because they are household names.
I watched the Sunday Game the night of the Wicklow game and that plonker Kevin McStay went on about how it was more or less a master-stroke by McGeeeny to move Morgan O'Flaherty from wing-forward to centre-back/sweeper...He made this assumption simply because Morgan had the number 10 jersey on his back and presumably he believed (rather foolishly) that Morgan is a forward on every other day!
He kept rambling on about Kildare's lack of scoring threat and the fact that they relied so heavily on JD for scores, even though he was playing in the uncustomary position of midfield (if McStay knew what he was talking about he would have known that JD has played most of his club football with Allenwood in recent years at midfield)! Only at the end of his rant did he point out that Kildare were missing their first choice midfield of Dermot (which was known since last February/March) and Daryl Flynn, which to me was the big news coming out of the Kildare camp in the lead up to the game.
As for the argument about Kildare not having enough natural footballers, well you can read what you like in to that statement, although I think saying that is a serious insult to Jimmers and Leper in particular who have been brilliant in recent years.
When Armagh were at the top in 2002, they got there without having the best 15 players in the country - however what they lacked in personnel they more than made up for in heart, commitment, work-rate etc. Individuals don't make a team - they help it alright and the more you have the better - but if you can't play as a team and to your strengths then you have nothing. Kildare are prime example to how players fit a system rather a system fitting the players!

Lads it the HYPE gravy train gathering speed , dont listen or read into it , this has been the downfall of my team for effing years , just look at the amount of articules written about kildare in the last week or so Dangerous stuff if you get drawn in , now some credit is deserved admittedly , but christ its get ridiculious , thank God the focus is off us , we will see how the crown will sit kildare for the next few weeks , if you win well ,i will be the first to say well done , i just hope this doesnt lead kildare player astray, for you sakes

The article was an ok piece but I do agree with radley that the likes of Kavanagh and Callaghan are very talented footballers, to say we have only one class player is ludicrous.

Ok Jimmers hasn't quite hit the heights so far this year but he was easily one of the best forwards in the country last year (Johnny might have scored more, mainly frees) some of Jimmers scores even the renowned Cooper would have been proud of.

They just do not have the star quality in attack. They do not have any commanding figure in defence either. In fact, barring one obvious exception, they do not have a major individual talent in any line of the team.

He says it like it's bad thing. Surely the aim would be a team so balanced that there's no star player, no one guy the others depend on?

Heraf wrote:

They just do not have the star quality in attack. They do not have any commanding figure in defence either. In fact, barring one obvious exception, they do not have a major individual talent in any line of the team.

He says it like it's bad thing. Surely the aim would be a team so balanced that there's no star player, no one guy the others depend on?

In fairness to him, I think that's exactly what he is getting at in the article. He is saying that individually, we may not have that many stars but we "are a proper team; the collective effort far exceeds the individual parts".

To say we have no star quality in attack, no commanding figure in defence either and do not have a major individual talent in any line of the team proves that our strength is our work rate, fitness, support play and never say die attitude. the volume of time kildare are on the ball is impressive and hard to match. star quality does'nt always bring success, kerry cant handle tyrone with all their great forwards because of tyrones in your face tactics which is hard to break down, also they struggled against armagh for a long time to, imo they will also struggle against cork this year, cork are phisical strong team and have well balanced team with a good bench to call from when needed, the game has evolved over the years and teams have done likewise, no longer are teams happy to let talented forwards tip toe around and get handy scores and stand back and admire them. every county will develop a system of play that suits the players in their squad, this in turn creates a bond within the panel as everyone in that panel knows there job. the placing of JD at midfield has released him from the tight markers and doubling up of defenders on him and in doing so he is harder to track and he has been outstanding for us in this position, its only a matter of time before the opposition will come up a plan to try stop him having such an influence on the games we play in, buts that why teams are always looking for that little extra nugget to win and adapt to whatever situation arises. heres hoping that we a long year ahead of us with the lilies and not to take to much notice of the media hacks who go out of their way to be controversial... P.S. hope to god JD is fit for the dubs.......

overthebar wrote:

To say we have no star quality in attack, no commanding figure in defence either and do not have a major individual talent in any line of the team proves that our strength is our work rate, fitness, support play and never say die attitude. the volume of time kildare are on the ball is impressive and hard to match. star quality does'nt always bring success, kerry cant handle tyrone with all their great forwards because of tyrones in your face tactics which is hard to break down, also they struggled against armagh for a long time to, imo they will also struggle against cork this year, cork are phisical strong team and have well balanced team with a good bench to call from when needed, the game has evolved over the years and teams have done likewise, no longer are teams happy to let talented forwards tip toe around and get handy scores and stand back and admire them. every county will develop a system of play that suits the players in their squad, this in turn creates a bond within the panel as everyone in that panel knows there job. the placing of JD at midfield has released him from the tight markers and doubling up of defenders on him and in doing so he is harder to track and he has been outstanding for us in this position, its only a matter of time before the opposition will come up a plan to try stop him having such an influence on the games we play in, buts that why teams are always looking for that little extra nugget to win and adapt to whatever situation arises. heres hoping that we a long year ahead of us with the lilies and not to take to much notice of the media hacks who go out of their way to be controversial... P.S. hope to god JD is fit for the dubs.......

If you think that article was controversial, you've lived a cosseted life... it's a reasonable analysis in my opinion. you mightn't agree but that doesn't make it controversial. Kildare are a team in the very best sense of the word. Leper is class in my opinion and they all have ability. But you have to do it consistently and on the big stage to be the best.

INterestingly, not that anyone would consider his word as gospel as he's just another media analyst, but a guy that has two All-Irelands, Liam Hayes says there are only two Grade A forwards in teh country - can't think of them all now, Declan O'Sullivan, Gooch, Bernard Brogan, Sean Cavanagh, Stephen O'Neill, Padhraic Joyce and Johnny Doyle - wow, I did.... so if you look at that quality, that has produced consistently in big games (Brogan has had the shortest career and has produced, even when Dublin haven't).... anyway, I'd consider that seven top class and I would say Leper is the closest to that and sure he's often around midfield. Jimmers has the goods but I could understand why he wouldn't be considered in that category, due mainly to a lack of scoring consistency. He does a massive job for the team though, in showing, winning and delivering inside. I think he's getting his mojo back though and there might be some top performances from him this summer and another All Star nomination

What the hell is a natural footballer?!?! It's a buzz phrase is being used more. Gooch seems to be the man people put forward as the most natural footballer but I bet he has trained and worked hard all his life to get to that level.

David beckham was probably the most "natural" free taker in soccer but that was only because he spent hours practicing after his team mates had gone home.

I don't know how Eamonn Callaghan gets overlooked so much when commentators talk about Kildare, he would improve any team in the country.

TheBigFullForward wrote:

What the hell is a natural footballer?!?! It's a buzz phrase is being used more. Gooch seems to be the man people put forward as the most natural footballer but I bet he has trained and worked hard all his life to get to that level.

David beckham was probably the most "natural" free taker in soccer but that was only because he spent hours practicing after his team mates had gone home.

I don't know how Eamonn Callaghan gets overlooked so much when commentators talk about Kildare, he would improve any team in the country.

Agree completely with Leper - I always felt he was a natural, his kicking was always brilliant, he was a good reader etc. He's overlooked probably because he played for many years when Kildare were nobodies. He was persona non grata under John Crofton and it's only in the last couple of years too many outside Kildare are seeing him in big games.

You're dead right, talented players including naturals have to work to get to the top. Plenty of naturals on bar stools around the land

I don't agree with Kildare not having natural talented footballers, we have a great bunch of players and their work ethic is to be admired , If I had to pick a team from the combined Kildare and Dublin squads Alan and Bernard Brogan would be the only two Dubs i would pick to start and even then I would struggle to find places to fit them in. That is how much I rate this Kildare panel.

I'm all for positivity but surely more than two Dubs would walk onto the Kildare team? Cluxton for a start is the best goalkeeper of his generation IMO. Terrific shotstopper and possesses one of the most accurate kickouts I've ever seen. O'Carroll is a good solid defender as is Barry Cahill (can't understand why they play him midfield?). McAuley is a limited enough footballer but he realises his shortcomings and he has a great engine. Brian Cullen might not be a free scoring half-forward but he's a fine footballer and I remember how he turned the Leinster Final two years ago against ourselves.

Just to underline the depth that Dublin have, they won the u21 All-Ireland last year and apart from that McCarthy lad, none of that team are currently on the senior team this year. Kildare do have a strong panel and we have no reason to fear Dublin but we shouldn't be getting carried away either. For all that we love to see them hyped up and then fall flat on their faces, they have earned their position in the betting as the most likely to break the Kerry/Cork stranglehold. Unlike Kildare they've actually beaten a top team in the form of Tyrone. We have made plenty of progress in three and a bit seasons under McGeeney but that is something we have yet to achieve.

nothing further to add to that - that's all correct KK - what Stanley said there is admirable in its support of his county, but it's patently absurd. It would suggest Kildare will win the semi-final by around10-15 points. And that just won't happen