KILDARE v DOWN: NFL Div 2 Sunday 1st Feb, Newbridge

flourman wrote:

Well well look who's back ... Looks like Jayson Rhine couldn't keep good on his promise to fuck off and never post on the forum again.

What?
Can you answer my questions?

Freddy Krueger wrote:

flourman wrote:

Well well look who's back ... Looks like Jayson Rhine couldn't keep good on his promise to fuck off and never post on the forum again.

What?
Can you answer my questions?

Jayson Rhine, Heisenberg or Freddy Krueger - You promised never to return. You don't warrant a reply - did you ever do that naked run around the Curragh??

Admin/Admins is there anyway of verifying that I am not who these think I am?

Lads the only way to avoid a season full of mindless hysteria from a certain poster is to ignore it.
Sorry to say I already made the mistake of getting involved... lesson learnt.

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Lads the only way to avoid a season full of mindless hysteria from a certain poster is to ignore it.
Sorry to say I already made the mistake of getting involved... lesson learnt.

+1 I definitely won't be engaging, having to read it for the majority of last year was painful enough.

There are enough good posters on here, to engage in sensible debate with.

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Lads the only way to avoid a season full of mindless hysteria from a certain poster is to ignore it.
Sorry to say I already made the mistake of getting involved... lesson learnt.

There are ways to say things without resorting to personal ridicule and Freddy would likely get more debate if he cut the diatribe and just focused on his key questions. For the record I think he raises some very valid points and questions about Ryan's leadership. Have we really improved at all given the physical and mental breakdown once more at the end on Sunday? What are Jason and his team really bringing to the table to bring us on? Why was Laverty left with acres of space in front of him when we had a sweeper on the pitch and 14 behind the ball at times. Why was Fogarty left isolated by Mulhall so often in the first half?

It's early days this season but Jason does need to get his own act together pretty quick., notwithstanding the individual mistakes that brought his own into the spotlight.

All valid criticisms worth discussing but as for the big question, it's hard to say after one league game whether we've improving. Ryan is manager for at least the rest of this season.
When that season is over, we will have seen enough to rationally assess whether we've made progress.
I would like us to do well in the league but I won't throw the head if we don't.
Kerry were destroyed by Cork near the end of last year's league. Armagh were relegated to division three. Both had fantastic championships. Yet some Kildare fans are after the manager with pitchforks after a loss on day one.

Agree with everything Crofter has said there. You can't brush under the carpet two capitulations like we have seen in the league inside twelve months and say "it's just the league". I have always maintained that half the problem in Kildare is that we are too easy going when it comes to football collapses and defeats like that. Those kind of endings would not be tolerated in the successful counties once never mind twice, hence why the are successful.

For the manager and a player to come out and basically say you win some and you lose some is very worrying no matter what time of the year. It has been said across many sports that a team represents the type of manager you have. Most successful teams have a manager who would sell his/her mother to win a game, there is no way in my opinion Ryan has that mentality. He is genuinely too nice a man it appears.

Remember this is his third year with Kildare, he must have seen the deficiencies by now and thus try and work to rid them from the team. Yet we are still soft in the middle, can't tackle, concede huge scores and can't close out a game to save our lives. Something needs to change because that is a combination from hell.

Hopefully it changes on Saturday night but I still feel even if we did get a result we would be only papering over the cracks.

My two cents, a la Kent Brockman...

I think for Kildare to progress, beat Dublin and win a Leinster, we need a Jim McGuinness-type figure, someone who is tactically innovative, with brilliant organisational and motivational skills. And before anyone jumps in with "That's what every county is looking for!" - Yes, I know that, but that's where the bar is, and if we settle for anything less, we're deluding ourselves. Dublin will simply continue beating us for the next ten years.

McGuinness very deliberately took a four-year term in Donegal - which he said was a natural cycle for an athlete, it's an Olympian timeframe - and with cast-iron certainty, he said, these are the levels of fitness we're going to reach, this is the gameplan we're going to use, and it will make us one of the best teams in the country. The quality of training improved and his belief eventually became infectious amongst the players. I've learned this from talking to members of the Donegal squad.

From what I have seen of Kildare during Jason Ryan's year in charge, I don't think he's that man. I think he's a competent, able manager, but not brilliant. And unfortunately at this moment in time, we need someone exceptional. Obviously I hope I'm wrong about this, but that's my honest assessment.

The good news is from reading reports of Meath's game, they were genuinely atrocious against Galway. And O'Dowd's post-match interviews are even worse than Ryan's. So there's a chance to get the promotion bid back on track. But if we lose the heat is going to be turned up on Ryan and rightly so.

We were promised an improvement when McGeeney got the boot. Relegation to Division 2 and scrapping to avoid a further drop to Division 3 is not progress.

Can someone explain why Kildare, amongst others, have to play 2 league matches in 6 days, then no match for 22 days followed by 3 matches in 14 days.  there must be a better way of organizing the league then this ( and I know that the hurling league has to be accommodated also ).

I heard Ryan's interview after the match and he basically said we threw it away, I didn't think he was glossing over it or anything like that.

To be honest, even if we won I would have been disappointed with a lot of our play. Particularly in the first half when we allowed Down far too much time on the ball and we were only kept in the match by some brilliant scores by the likes of Dowling.

A lot of our problems (poor tackling, soft centre etc) were there in the last couple of years of McGeeney's term so it looks as if they are not easy to fix. It's Ryan's second year in charge so he's rightly going to get criticism if he can't fix these problems.

I think it was a mistake not playing the 7 defenders like we did in the O'Byrne Cup. That system seemed to be working so why change it? There was no cover when Mooney beat O'Brien for the first goal. If that means he has to play Murnaghan instead of Leper or Niall Kelly and we lose a bit in attack then so be it. I think it causes confusion among the players when he changes the system.

He will hardly drop His Captain Johnny ?.. But I agree, if your gonna play that System, surely it would be better with a natural Defender ?

The Meath Game is probably a must Win now if were gonna treathen Promotion.

Much as I like and have admired Leper over the years I'm not sure he had much left to offer Kildare. A straight swop for Murnaghan would improve the team as would a similar switch with Conway for O'Brien.
Midfield is a disaster area for us as we not good enough at high fielding or winning breaking ball. It's hard to believe we have never come close to finding another Declan Kerrigan for that role.
Ryan has been a major disappointment so far but surely the players have to take blame also. We conceded 4 goals in about 2 mins in the Tyrone and Down matches without a tackle never mind a black card. That is unacceptable and would never happen in Dublin, Kerry or Donegal.
Nice guys never win anything in contact sports. It's time the players copped onto that before every other team realises how brittle we are when a few points clear at the end.

Well, Leper has played at least half of his long career as a defender.

I was disgusted when Kieran McGeeney got the rip, and was a huge fan from the start, even when people were calling for his head after Wicklow 2008. But he didn't manage to beat Dublin either.

Also, I don't recall anyone promising us better than McGeeney.

As for a time when preparation is never more professional - this is true. But Kildare spent a third of what Kerry spent on their seniors last year and that figure will be shrinking further this year because of the financial issues. I've written about it and it's on my blog and some of the papers today, I won't irk ye posting it here.

But of course the manager isn't immune from criticism. From what I could gather, he was pretty stunned after the game. He said they threw it away and they did. I would agree that there was a bit much space found despite the numbers behind the ball and couldn't believe no-one tracked across to cut off Mooney.

From what I can gather, management wasn't happy with general intensity defensively and that the targets at both ends of the field weren't met. And the mental errors at the end. So I'm guessing they'll be worked on but they've only six days. Hope Kelly and Doyle will be fit to play, they'll be needed. I would also play Murnaghan.

The only reason for giving a manager the boot and getting a new one in is if he's an improvement on the last guy.

If that's not the case, it would suggest the Kildare county board doesn't know what it's doing and is making it up as it goes along. And as we know, that could never happen!

After been beaten Dublin so many on here were happy we hadn't conceded goals and a week later it's the polar opposite after a late horror show.
Of course it's disappointing to lose in such a manner but it's the first week in February, if problem is to persist into March/April and beyond we obviously have a big problem but I would like to think it won't.

Fact, I'd like to have seen McGeeney kept on.
Fact, I had some hope that Ryan would at least keep the momentum going.
Fact, the players on the Kildare team work extraordinarily hard in training and I have the greatest admiration for their commitment.
Fact, the fiasco against Tyrone last year and Down last week are 95% down to those same players.
I'm not a huge Ryan fan but, I have to say, I don't have any great faith, either, in the current Kildare team - either in terms of mental toughness or nous.
Having said all that, I think we will beat Meath next weekend. I think we should beat Cavan, Roscommon, Westmeath and Laois. That may or may not get us up...

Im just curious as to why Players are brought on to the Panel and then not given a chance ?.. Surely the O B Cup was an opportunity to give Cahill, Tyrell, Cian Bolton and others (feel free to name) time to show if they are good enough to step up... Or are they on the Panel for other reasons, ie to make up the Numbers for Training Matches etc.. I see this last Week Photos coming out of different Business People sponsoring Players for the Year, and fair play to them.. but a lot of those Fellas wont be seeing to much action, if any... Some Fellas on the Panel a long time now, and havnt made it.

Well said Tom, agree with almost all of that. However I'm not to confident of beating Meath who I think will be incredibly fired up after the Galway loss. Unless we match that intensity they will wear us down eventually.

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

The only reason for giving a manager the boot and getting a new one in is if he's an improvement on the last guy.

If that's not the case, it would suggest the Kildare county board doesn't know what it's doing and is making it up as it goes along. And as we know, that could never happen!

That SHOULD be the reason HG but I think we all know it wasn't the reason in this instance. And by the board, you mean the clubs, because the majority of the executive wanted him to stay. The majority of the clubs voted against him. I still shake my head when I think about it, but anyway.

Yea like when you think about it was like an episode of Fr Ted except there's no one laughing now.

But that's in the past and I feel this will make the lads stronger because if you thing we were feeling bad coming out of Newbridge, imagine how the players and management feel.

I'd like to believe that jim, unfortunately the same was said after Tyrone last year and that set us back for months. Meath in the Championship was supposed to be the turning point but Meath saw we had a soft underbelly.

The mental toughness McGeeney tried to instill in the players has all but gone. We are back to being seen as an easy touch. The problem we have is that we are an easy touch and until the players find a mean streak we won't be knocking down walls any time soon.

Well said

Rex wrote:

I'd like to believe that jim, unfortunately the same was said after Tyrone last year and that set us back for months. Meath in the Championship was supposed to be the turning point but Meath saw we had a soft underbelly.

The mental toughness McGeeney tried to instill in the players has all but gone. We are back to being seen as an easy touch. The problem we have is that we are an easy touch and until the players find a mean streak we won't be knocking down walls any time soon.

As Rex states this is JR's 3rd year with Kildare. He should not be blindfolded any longer.

It's a clear as night follows day that we have serious serious problems at the back. Even in his first year with McGeeney the floodgates began to open at the back. The concession of soft frees, our tackling, conceding ground to attackers and the absolute elephant in the room the actual scoring rate against us is completely off the charts by any standard.

This has come no where near to being addressed. Until it is, JR is a dead man walking in terms of his Kildare Management role. It cannot continue like it is.

If people fail to see this then it is them who have a problem and not me.

"Even in his first year with McGeeney the floodgates began to open at the back"
Not true Freddy, the floodgates opened the year before. Have you forgotten how Meath, Limerick and most spectacularly Cork ran through us at will in 2012 before Ryan arrived?
And even though Ryan was there in 2013 it was still McGeeney in charge.
The one common denominator in all this is the players who were there in 12 and are still there in 15 and who clearly have not developed a mental toughness and a mean edge.
Micko's team of the early 90's was regularly bullied by Dublin but by 98 had tremendous leaders who bullied Dublin for the next few years. Anyone remember Glen Ryan's shoulder charge which knocked Senan Connell almost unconscious in 2000?
When we lost those great players we also lost that toughness which we had only briefly.
You can knock the manager all you want but if a player cant take a black card late in the game to save his team then we are way off the leading counties.
By the way Freddy be careful Jason Rhine doen't sue you for plagiarism