Arguing about former , current and future managers thread

Baba O' Reily wrote:

That's a fair enough point. However the chairman didn't exactly cast a net out to see if he could get a few more names.

In normal circumstances I'd imagine a team that has reached a couple of quarter finals during the previous few years, has good underage talent coming through and enjoys a large support base would be an attractive option for a manager. Considering the ill feeling among a lot of the fans and the panel though it might have put a few off and they could have seen it as a bit of a hiding to nothing job.

Without being the most inspirational of appointments Ryan allowed for a certain level of continuity that should in theory help develop younger players, and was also probably one of the only possible appointees that would have appeased the players after their unhappiness with how things went surrounding McGeeney's exit.

Ryan had arguably less resources to work with in Wexford. There was no underage success at all, they were beaten by ourselves at under 21 level in '08 and their minors hadn't been to a final in years. I'd imagine there's less big business in the county than what could possibly be exploited here and you could say that football is actually the county's second sport after hurling. Yet they still reached two Leinster finals and could have won one of them were it not for a goalkeeping howler in 2011, while in 2008 they reached an All Ireland semi coming off the back of Division 3 football.

There's a lot more for him to work with in Kildare, he deserves a decent shot at it if nothing else.

Baba O' Reily wrote:

That's a fair enough point. However the chairman didn't exactly cast a net out to see if he could get a few more names.

Baba, I read your Post, and Im actually going to have to say your spot on.. It was a far to easy or lazy option imo to go with JR.

Im not gonna go into it in to much detail, but to say Glen had absolutly no interest in the Job is not exactly true.. I would be fairly sure the CB had no interest in Glen.

Lads the most worrying thing is that we didn't see a lift when Ryan took over. When you look at other codes in recent times the new man comes in and there is a huge boost.
The soccer buzz was dead with Trap and then The lads come in and there is a boost of positivity.
In rugby Kidney was past his sell by date and then Schmidt comes in and there is a big lift.
There was so much negativity towards Geezer's last day's but the fact that Ryan came in didn't lift the county at all. That is a worry and there is no way this whole ongoing debate is not getting into the players. There is no way they don't miss Geezer and there is F all Ryan can do.
There is v little he can do in terms of that but we are so open it's a joke and as pointed it's all well and good playing the Cribbins (they are serious forwards who have work rate and scoring ability btw!) and have them bomb forward against Offaly but when we are against quality opposition then there is trouble.

It's very easy to say that certain players are not good enough defenders but who can you replace them with to improve matters? Have a look at the subs listed for the last few games and name 2 players there who are better than what we have now.
I agree Campbell should have got a chance by now but who else? We have 4 first choice defenders out injured which severely limits our options. I dont know could McGeeney have done any better with the hand dealt him, he had his own problems finding midfielders for many years and used an All Star forward and full back to help out there.

Ah Murof I was not digging at the lads, I'm not saying who are better defenders I'm saying they simply are not defenders but they are both honest so will kill themselves. Just wanted to state that. Going to the thread topic then it's up to the boss to come up with a system to tighten it up.

I agree re: Campbell, and I think it was TC who made the point, why is He on the Panel if Hes not going to be tried out ?

JR said in His post Match Interview after the Kerry Game on the positioning of K Cribben and O Flaherty, "that you have to try new things out" .. Feckin grand JR, but not in a relagation Match surely ?

Not having a go at you Flamingo, just pointing out that the managers options are limited especially with the poor form of our 2 most experienced defenders. If we were playing the way we are and getting the result we are with a bigger pool of defenders then I would be very annoyed. I just think the new manager deserved time to get it right. Hopefully he will.

Mcgeeney should have resigned after the Tyrone match. IMO.

I was devastated when McGeeney went still am tbh thought he did a terrific job and we came a long way from having max 2 matches in the championship and getting hammered by the likes of meath, louth, offaly, derry, wexford and the likes now we go into matches like that with confidence well we did under McGeeney, he had his shortcomings but at the end of the day from 2008 to 2012 he got us to the quarter final of the All Ireland or more. He definitely deserved more time considering he didn't do too badly in a "transition year".

Even though I feel that I think we should give Jason Ryan our support, I definitely think he has his shortcomings though I think his in game management is poor his tactics are poor, teams are cutting us open through the middle and sometimes when we attack Brophy and Tomas are very isolated an Brophey runs towards the wing and ends up loosing it as a result of the lack of support. When Tomas gets it he ends up loosing it too. I am definitely willing to give him time, the injuries we have at the moment are shocking and many of our first choice backs are either injured or out of form. For some fucked up reason I think we can beat Derry and have a feeling we will.

Not sure if I agree Tomas and Paddy tend to lose the ball when they get it. In many of the games this year there has been an exceptional return from possession won by them and they are winning the vast majority of balls sent in to them. I agree that when we've been at our attacking best they've had the likes of Mulhall, Flats and McNally coming off their shoulder though and that hasn't been as apparent as the last 2 games. I think we would make hay with Niall Kelly playing closer to goal than Mulhall is at the moment (or alternatively Ryan should tell Mulhall not to move outside the 45).
JD is another possibility. Call it a 3-1-2 forward line if you like.

No problem with Ryan being the manager. McGeeney did his time, did as well as he could..he brought us on but also made some mistakes. 6 years was enough. It was the right time to let him go.

Calling for a managers head before he has even picked his first championship 15 is in my opinion ridiculous.

People on here calling for a return to the sweeper system are overlooking out failings and trying to look for a quick solution that will yield nothing in the long term. Our defenders have gotten used to having an extra player around to sweep up mistakes and in turn have lost the ability to defend properly one on one. Even with the sweeper system the better teams always found ways of opening us up and as the game has evloved in the past 2 or 3 years it is no longer a way to succeed.
Sure you would continue to take care of the lesser teams but once you meet any team who are comfortable and smart on the ball the sweeper system is found out. Donegal suceeded due to a lot of underhand tactics that wont fly anymore and they also have top defenders who can take care of the one on one situation.
It was hard to watch the Kildare minors getting a lesson in tactics and football against Roscommon last year. Having looked so good in leinster,(and I am not running down there success) when Roscommon decided to move the ball up to the 45 with ease always having an overlap the sweeper moved out from his covering position and had no effect, he was simply bypassed.
It was very noticable the difference in our full back line to theirs. Thier players were well capable of marking and keeping our forward line out our full back line was not and were constantly looking for the assistance of a sweeper.
As the game has changed and more counties buy into the preparation that set us apart previously its time Kildare moved on too. The sweeper is counter productive it creates a false security that is less and less effective.

Might as well give my 2 cents on this. Geezer got Kildare to a consisent level where we would beat the average teams but could never beat the elite teams, not even once in 6 years. He was a good motivator & trainer but his tactical acumen was quite poor. The players at his disposal were good but not the real blue chip players that the elite counties had at their disposal. He was a good manager and deserves respect

In his last year as manager the wheels came off and his position became close to untenable. The SJ saga was a disgrace. There was no real plan from looking at games. When we showed up vs Dublin in the champo last year there was no buzz at all, even before the game, for anyone who was realist. Geezer done well for 5 of 6 years but it looked like he had run out of ideas in the last year and I think he took the team as far as he could. Dublin are too good at the moment and if Geezer was given another year it would only delay the inevtiable as we are at least five years away from having a team that can compete at their level IMO.

Again being a realist the Kildare team is simply not good enough at the moment to belong in Division 1. Had we had a full pick we would be good enough I would say but even with a full pick we are not anything for the elite teams to fear at the moment. Our young players are inconsisent but will be quality in a few years and are older experienced were never good enough to beat the elite team 5 years ago so they wont be good enough to beat them now when the elite teams have got better.

A bit of patience and realism is required. A drop down to division 2 is a setback but should not be seen as an unexpected one.

And You make a lot of very good points in doing so.
Why do we not seem to be able to produce enough of the "Blue chip Players" as the top Counties seem to do so on a regular basis ?

Spoken on this thread and others about the need for a grand plan and what it should entail in my eyes. See Intel investing 5bn in Leixip plant today, wonder who has started making plans to try and make contact over a few pennies in their eyes as they want to maximise the goodwill of their investment.

Id imagine Intel would look at something with more profile than the Kildare Footballers..

Last page is interesting..

http://www.intel.ie/content/dam/www/public/emea/ie/en/documents/i-c-c-q112-lu.pdf

But we keep putting ourselves down that way Seamus. To be fair, you'd think AIG would look at something more profile than even Gaelic football's giant! Like the last page of that link StoneCold posted, I'm sure Intel couldn't care less about any of them but for what's loose change to them, these American super companies are all about "local community" leading to image.

I'll have to burst your bubble there regarding Intel. I worked there for over 12 years and they have no interest in that kind of sponsorship.
Those listed in that PR effort will all probably have been a scheme where you volunteer for so many hours and they match it in someway. They are certainly not giving free money out of the goodness of their hearts. Never have never will.
As for loose change. You must be joking. Everything is accounted for and nothing gets spent unless it's for the good of Intel.

The likes of Intel giving money to Kildare GAA with the way it conducts business would go against every fibre of their being. It's a meritocracy. You must prove and demonstrate you are doing a good job. Kildare GAA would be laughed out of the place.

And if we ran things right, had plans in place in terms of stadium, on-field, sponsorship and so on, would they? Because don't think any would bite with the random nature of it at this stage.

Wouldn't make a difference TK. They have no interest in sports sponsorship of this kind.

I took a bit of flak in the Kildare/Derry thread because I wouldnt let someone else speak on my behalf when they generalised the Kildare support as being "lost".

I was thinking of posting this in that thread but thought it better to put it in here as it may be construed as a McGeeney/Ryan debate again.

Ryans first 4 months in charge will lead to relegation from division one on the back of 2 wins most likely.

McGeeney's first term in charge in 2008 was relegation from division one with just one win and defeat in his first championship game. And for the record that Kildare team that year lost by 11 points to Derry...YES "DERRY".

Now I am neither pro or anti Geezer or pro or anti Ryan but I firmly believe managers deserve time to manage. Those that are using McGeeneys progress and "success" as a stick to measure and beat Jason Ryan with before he has even played a championship game would do well to remember how Geezer started out and ultimately what followed.

But Ryan took over a far more advanced team - even with the Dublin defeat - one that was not really any different than Tyrone last year and that was used to playing Division One football and that had players used to be in All Ireland quarter-finals every year and young players used to winning. None of that was the case when McGeeney took over so very different starting points. And on top of that, and even with that Derry result, we were far more competitive in 2008, with very negative tactics yes, but we weren't out of games by half-time each and every gameweek back then.

TommyKeegan wrote:

But Ryan took over a far more advanced team - even with the Dublin defeat - one that was not really any different than Tyrone last year and that was used to playing Division One football and that had players used to be in All Ireland quarter-finals every year and young players used to winning. None of that was the case when McGeeney took over so very different starting points. And on top of that, and even with that Derry result, we were far more competitive in 2008, with very negative tactics yes, but we weren't out of games by half-time each and every gameweek back then.

I disagree...you say we are out of games "each and every gameweek"?????.....We played 6 league games this year. Surely the only game we were out of by half time was the Derry one yesterday. Should have beaten Tyrone and lost by a point to Cork. We didnt set the world alight against Dublin but were not outclassed either. The Kerry game was a big disappointment for sure but we well in it at half time. If you compare it with 2008..its all very similar..close defeats and 1 hammering and another 6 point defeat to Mayo like this years Kerry result.

How many of the current starters up to this year were used to playing every game in division one and getting the county to all-ireland quarter finals?...its a minority and a sizeable one at that. I expected a battle against relegation. I dont know how anyone else expected anything different. This is a team in transition and needs development.

Agree on the young players winning and I see that as a positive for the next couple of years. Theres about 6 or 7 starters there who are 19-22 and will be hopefully the backbone of Kildare for years to come. And these guys can be class...i hate to use the word "potential" but..Flynn, Cribben, Brophy, Kelly, Hurley, Moolick..if they continue as they are they could be among the best in the country as the years progress ..Fit again young players Lyons and Peter Kelly as well?. I dont think we have had as talented a bunch of young footballers in a long long time. Lets give Ryan a chance to bring them on before he is hung drawn and quartered in March!!!!!!

I think it was asking a lot for the current starters to come up with the 6 or 7 points this season needed to stay up when you factor in the absences of Lyons, Peter Kelly, Niall Kelly, Bolton, Johnny and a midfielder like Earley and Darryl Flynn compared to the last few years. It was going to be a struggle. Big disappointments performance wise were Kerry and Derry.

Maybe I should go get stuffed but its not enough for me to be making demands of the manager just yet until i see his full hand played.

TommyKeegan wrote:

But Ryan took over a far more advanced team - even with the Dublin defeat - one that was not really any different than Tyrone last year and that was used to playing Division One football and that had players used to be in All Ireland quarter-finals every year and young players used to winning. None of that was the case when McGeeney took over so very different starting points. And on top of that, and even with that Derry result, we were far more competitive in 2008, with very negative tactics yes, but we weren't out of games by half-time each and every gameweek back then.

How is this Kildare team far more advanced? For my part, the reason I thought McGeeney was judged harshly last year was that the team was a completely new team and would need three years to be a factor?

And, I know you mentioned this elsewhere, but you said Jason Ryan took over Division 1 semi-finalists and got them relegated (like he did it all by himself!). Well McGeeney, a man I rate incredibly highly, did the same thing. Exact same thing. I wanted McGeeney to stay but the same criteria aren't being used to compare these guys in the rush to say 'I told you so'.