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 Kildare v Dublin

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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 11, 2019 8:52 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Just emerging from my deeply depressed state to make a small point I haven’t seen elsewhere. We made our second full substitution with13 minutes to go. When you’re facing a far fitter team, you need to be smarter than that. Have two or three starters empty themselves and replace them on 40 minutes. Have five subs made by the 50th minute, keeping just one for injuries. We tend to do ok for 40-45 minutes against these c**** before the procession begins.

Good point. I would have brought in players who can get up and down the pitch like Hartley, O'Donoghue and McNally for players who were struggling like Cribbin, Moolick and Slattery after 45 minutes. CON can be very slow to make changes sometimes.

I know Dublin are the fittest team in the country but we faded in the second half in lots of games this season (Clare, Meath, Tipperary, Wicklow, Longford) I still reckon our fitness/conditioning can be improved.

The disappointing thing for me from Sunday is that we did a lot of things right (kept a clean sheet, won turnovers, created goal chances) and had some good individual displays (O'Grady, Feely, Tyrell, McCormack) and still lost by 15 points. We have to be better defensively and be able to keep going for longer to begin to close the gap.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 11, 2019 8:56 pm

FionnMcCool wrote:
Malachy O Rourke is finished in Monaghan this summer.

Just as a by the by. Monaghan has a population of 60k , what he has done with them is nothing short of a miracle.

Has done a serious job alright.. and won't be idle for long.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 11, 2019 9:26 pm

I know we can say the defensive style of the likes of Malachy might not suit Kildare, however in my opinion its where we need to start, we need to strip it right back to basics and work from there.....

That's where Dublin started we need to get nasty and create a mindset in Kildare that not content with getting a hammering at Leinster semi-final stage to Dublin.... also the players coming through need to see the workrate that would be required to be a senior inter county footballer...… think we would lose some players but might gain a few with a stronger mentality and maybe not as much skill...

I am reading a sport psychology book at the moment to quote
'Physical dominance can make you great, mental dominance is what ultimately makes you unstoppable. The true measure of an individual is determined by what you can't measure -the intangibles. Anyone can measure weight, height, physical strength, speed..... but you can't measure commitment, persistence, or the instinctive power of the muscle in your chest, your heart. That where true work begins understanding what you want to achieve and knowing what your willing to endure to achieve it'.

When i got back in the car on Sunday Johnny Doyle was talking about Micko and he spoke about the sickening runs that they used to do in training but they had the confidence in themselves to know that they were fitter and stronger than their opponents who hadn't done the same amount of sickening work to gain that mental strength and upper hand and they may not of had the best players and some great skillful players who didn't commit were asked to walk away but they had that physical and mental strength.... and they could look around at each other and know they had all done it and could rely on each other...…. not too many there at the moment i would like to get into the trenches with.....

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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Do you know what? I think Malachy would be worth a punt. Would be an interesting experiment... Kildare county board take note.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 11, 2019 10:42 pm

Trying to play defensive football with Kildare Im sorry but Kildare dont have the players in the county to play that way its just not in them so going after a manager that is renowned to play that way I dont think it would work. I would think an outside manager would suit better (Jack o Connor/Kevin McStay etc) but I wouldnt mind the likes of Glenn Ryan Johnny Doyle being on board if they wanted it.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 12:29 am

Hard to build a brand when you share a province with Dublin though. Likes of Monaghan have had something tangible to win and if they do reach latter stages of season, it's often been after winning something or at least after very nearly winning something and not having a reminder they are miles off the best.

Could we do more? Probably. But in terms of fans engaging, players pushing, companies wanting to be part of it, it's quite difficult when you cannot get within 15 points of lads up the road when they are in second gear, and when their brand is all over Kildare and other counties including in clubs from Kilcullen's raffle to Grange's new pitch to Clane's clubhouse and so on.

Moate you mention money, what was raised for Micko was our money, not a GAA handout. In the decade 2008-2018 Dublin have been given €17m in coaching money, Kildare €700,000. That isn't ven including the special €5m for Dublin. That allowed them to shift efforts from that as it was taken care of for them, and to tap into tens of millions more in sponsorship money. On top of that they weren't bullied over stadium standard, and didn't have to build a centre of excellence.

This isn't like the 1990s when a few raffles and a few business lads can get Micko in to give the place a lift and get a team fit and give it a go. That was the end of the amateur days. Now it's moved onto a serious level and we cannot keep pace. We went bust by trying to for a handful of years and it's not just us. Told Donegal are about to go to Croke Park with a begging bowl as not paying debts around their training centre; Mayo already have and owe millions upon millions for MacHale Park and so on. They cannot financially sustain trying to get close to Dublin, indeed both have fallen off.

We are far from alone and not everyone is stupid or just not trying as hard. What happened to Leinster is now about to happen nationwide. We had start of it last year when All Ireland was as easy for Dublin as Leinster and we know it will be this year as well. Sorry to harp on about this and I know the thread is about the game but it cannot be overstated.

And at the end of the day the GAA push a B Championship! Was on radio with Peter Canavan yesterday and he suggested this as a solution as well. What Championship will Kildare and Meath be on, what championship will Roscommon and Galway be in who Dublin annihalated last year be in, what championship will Tyrone be in when their All Ireland final was a non-event against the champions who played it like a training match? The rest need quantitively more money than Dublin as they are starting from way behind, can't get the private money they can, interest is already low, and they don't have the population resources. Instead they get less money and are told to get their house in order and have GAA people complain they don't travel in numbers.
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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 12:48 am

Tommy, great work on this issue. Keep at it as you have the support of the silent majority.

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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 12:57 am

Tommy would disagree on one point – if we park Dublin for a minute, I think getting into Div 1 and becoming an established top team is an achievable goal for Kildare.

Everyone knows Leinster is as good as fixed, so I wouldn't be too fixated on it – it's going to implode in not too distant future so may as well get on with what we should be doing.

I still think there's plenty we can do... As you say, the Dublin virus is about to go nationwide and soon it will be everyone else's problem as well.

But we should focus on improving as much as we can... The history of Kildare football is not maximising resources so it's something we should continue to strive for.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 am

Agreed on that too. Starts with getting best players out there and under-20s integrated, and everyone buying into a vision and a plan. Although don't write this season off just yet. While playing Dublin is a disaster, flipside is should also be easier to move on from given the circumstances. If we play we did in first half last Sunday up in Belfast, we'll be flying. Although consistency from game to game and within games seems to be a massive problem.
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 1:06 am

Would be in favour of second tier as long as it's properly promoted and is given the right amount of prestige.

For me, playing final on same day as regular final is non-runner – you can't get tickets for senior one as it is. If you have four counties searching for tickets what hope have you.

"A" competition though won't be sorted until Dublin are split in four.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 1:19 am

Tommy the financial disparity is nothing short of criminal...…… and in legal terms is creating a monopoly in the GAA which is actually illegal……

Stevie i don't buy into the Kildare don't have the players to play defensive football.... but we do have the players to constantly disappoint in the league along with losing to the mighty Carlow last year and so far this year struggling over a savage Wicklow team and only beating the superpower of Longford after a replay...…..

To me Dublin are one of the most defensive and hard working team out there they constantly use a sweeper and i lost count of the number of times i counted only 1-2 players in their half of the pitch when we were attacking so i believe we need to get rid of our notion that we are something and give ourselves a massive dose of reality and find a bunch of players whose ego's are not big enough to think they are better than playing a defensive and ultra hard working system..... its men that stand up and want to be counted that we need not pre-Madonna's that think they are something.....



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Shay tompkins
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 3:29 am

Would you employ this man - Very impressive CV - Written by himself about himself

Summary
Outside of academia, my life is dedicated to coaching athletes from a variety of perspectives, particularly in the GAA:

Inter-County ~

2016 - Present: Kildare Senior Football Manager
- Division 3 Promotion

2013-2015 Seasons: Kerry Senior Football Coach
- All Ireland Champions 2014
- Munster Champions 2013, 2014, 2015
- McGrath Cup Champions 2013

2012 Season: Mayo Senior Football Coach
- All Ireland Finalists
- Connacht Champions
- Div. 1 League Finalists
- FBD League Champions

2008-2011 Seasons: Tipperary Senior Hurling Fitness Coach
- All Ireland Champions 2010
- Munster Champions 2008, 2009, 2011
- Div. 1 League Champions 2008
- Waterford Crystal Champions 2008

2006 & 2007 Seasons: Limerick Senior Football Coach & Trainer
- Promotion to Div. 1 2006
- League Finalists 2006

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Club ~

2014 Season: Moorefield (Kildare) Senior Football Coach
- Kildare Co. Champions

2010 Season: Monaleen (Limerick) Senior Football Coach
- Limerick Co. Champions

2009 Season: Newtownshandrum (Cork) Senior Hurling Coach & Trainer
- Munster Club Champions
- Cork Co. Champions

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Sports ~

2011 Season: UL Huskies Basketball (Limerick) Fitness Coach
- National Cup Champions
- Superleague Champions
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 4:29 am

Great work TK, I and the vast majority of GAA supporters fully back what you have been saying. Keep it up, the damn is going to break very soon

As for O'Neills roll of honour, 95% all as a Coach and S&C not a manager who picks players, builds panels, sets tactics, manages in game decisions, instills discipline and leadership, can see deficiencies in a squad like tackling or defending and find a solution, who motivates players and who can improve players.

How many of the above can we truly sai CON has done.
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Snowwhite
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 4:55 am

Rex wrote:
Great work TK, I and the vast majority of GAA supporters fully back what you have been saying. Keep it up, the damn is going to break very soon

As for O'Neills roll of honour,  95% all as a Coach and S&C not a manager who picks players, builds panels, sets tactics, manages in game decisions, instills discipline and leadership, can see deficiencies in a squad like tackling or defending and find a solution, who motivates players and who can improve players.

How many of the above can we truly sai CON has done.
Sorry but why are you bringing this up here and now, anyone on this forum knows his CV and knows what his experience is... he never pretended anything different so why are you stirring. I doubt he will stay on at the end of the season, not sure there will be a queue of people either willing to take his place but anyway.... Can you just not concentrate on the game ahead instead please and keep your head hunting until the end of season
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Snowwhite
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 am

Snowwhite wrote:
Rex wrote:
Great work TK, I and the vast majority of GAA supporters fully back what you have been saying. Keep it up, the damn is going to break very soon

As for O'Neills roll of honour,  95% all as a Coach and S&C not a manager who picks players, builds panels, sets tactics, manages in game decisions, instills discipline and leadership, can see deficiencies in a squad like tackling or defending and find a solution, who motivates players and who can improve players.

How many of the above can we truly sai CON has done.
Sorry but why are you bringing this up here and now, anyone on this forum knows his CV and knows what his experience is... he never pretended anything different so why are you stirring.  I doubt he will stay on at the end of the season, not sure there will be a queue of people either willing to take his place but anyway.... Can you just not concentrate on the game ahead instead please and keep your head hunting until the end of season

above message is for Shay Tomkins.... not Rex...
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flourman
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 am

For a so-called expert in Strength & Conditioning, how come this Kildare are distinctly lacking in both?
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Shay tompkins
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 9:22 am

He was mr Donnelly’s choice and recommendation based on the above self penned personal diatribe. Mr Donnelly is as much to blame for Sunday as con. Yet the invisible mr Donnelly is still unseen and unheard. If we had beaten Dublin last Sunday would we have heard from him. It’s hard to see the light with your head stuck up your ..... let’s get real here we have the worst run county board in the country and based on the succession that is planned for next year it will actually get worse not better. We have no balls we are like sheep following the leader to tier 2 championship for the foreseeable future. Things must change if any progress is to be made.
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bite the pillow
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 11:17 am

Shay tompkins wrote:
He was mr Donnelly’s choice and recommendation based on the above self penned personal diatribe. Mr Donnelly is as much to blame for Sunday as con. Yet the invisible mr Donnelly is still unseen and unheard. If we had beaten Dublin last Sunday would we have heard from him. It’s hard to see the light with your head stuck up your .....  let’s get real here we have the worst run county board in the country and based on the succession that is planned for next year it will actually get worse not better. We have no balls we are like sheep following the leader to tier 2 championship for the foreseeable future. Things must change if any progress is to be made.
Spill the beans Shay. Did Mr Donnelly piss in your cornflakes !!!
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 12, 2019 7:43 pm

The majority of people in Kildare including myself were happy to see him getting the job at the time and we can't deny that.... just didn't work out and the transition from coach to manager was too much for him..... live, learn and move on......
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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 1:27 am

micky murphy wrote:
The majority of people in Kildare including myself were happy to see him getting the job at the time and we can't deny that.... just didn't work out and the transition from coach to manager was too much for him..... live, learn and move on......

I agree with this. No need for the personal bitriol and sniping towards CON. His CV coming into the role was impressive as a "home grown" even accounting for his lack of management experience.

Its turned sour in the past 12 months or so and is limping towards a conclusion by the looks of things so as micky says, live learn and move on.

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Shay tompkins
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 3:28 am

Exactly live learn and move on but we should have moved on last year. it is this lack of decisive timely action that has us in the position we are in. And yes you are correct Mr Donnelly has pissed in everyones Cornflakes that was after pissing in himself.
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Blackadder
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 5:14 am

I don’t blame county board for appointing CON. To be honest we have had guys with good track records appointed since geezer. My main problem is that we don’t prepare like a team playing for an all-ireland.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 5:37 am

Wouldn't be the first manager to find the step up from no.2 to no.1 very difficult. However the warning signs were there in the first year, losing a Div 3 final to Clare and a woeful exit to Westmeath. His 2nd year looked as if he had learned a lesson and it was his one redeeming point.
It's unacceptable that we seem to have gone backwards since 2017. Relegation and defeat to Carlow and failure to win promotion or integrate many of U20's during league.
The width of a goal post in Tullamore following on from the Mayo saga last year has shown him to be a lucky but uninspiring manager. I hope he has the sense to move on after our season ends.
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moatesports
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 9:04 am

listening to off the ball the other night and karl lacy gave a great shout out to stephen rochford who he said was doing great work with donegal maybe another guy who might work for our lads in the future , and i agree lets get behind team and mentors for rest of year and see how far it gets us ,
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Shay tompkins
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Dublin   Kildare v Dublin - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 13, 2019 9:22 am


Agree the county board need to look at themselves and realize they are out of their depth. The contributors on this forum could do a much better job and have more passion. Money is of course an issue but the difference from all sources in Kildare and Dublin per GAA member is not that different. What is different in Dublin is that they use their money very wisely and do put it in to grass roots development. Lads we all have the same agenda but we may as well be whistling in the wind if we believe the people why run our Organisation in the county on our behalf are up to the job. It is time for a complete change in the county board. Chairman vice chair and treasurer must go immediately.Make Kildare Great Again ,,,,!,,,,,,,,
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