Imalgimating Junior and Intermediate teams in Kildare to compete in the Senior Championship

The fact is that my club Ballyteague where well able to compete independently , we had the numbers to put a team into minor or under 21 competition at them times but the club chose to enter the Na Fianna set up to give lads a chance to better themselves at a higher level. the alarming sadness of that under 14 team i mentioned above is that ,6 of that team represented Kildare at under 14 and 16 level playing alongside current Kildare footballers and even confining some to the bench, i know underage success does not always mean it transfers to senior but surely more than 2 would have stayed interested and would now be 25 years old and driving the team during their peak years, it would also mean the current senior team would have more experienced players unlike the current panel where at least 6 or the subs are under 20... i agree they have been very successful but the number of players my club has lost because of this down the years has been alarming.You ask any lad who won with Na Fianna at underage would they swap their medal for one with their club and i think they will all say they easily would.the simple fact being that the Na Fianna team that won the under 21 a few years ago contained no fewer than 14 larks on the panel,11 of them starting and a complete once off in being a Ballyteague manager on their own looking after the team ,surely we would of been better off with a team of our own whether it be in the A or B competition, St Kevins are a prime example of where my club should be, they have stayed at the B grade on their own at minor and 21 and in keeping them bunch of players together and gaining experience of being successful together, it is now transferring to the senior team who have moved through the ranks to the senior grade.. Im not going to get into an argument over this but as i have proved at my clubs agms over the past few years that while Robertstown and Milltown and Allenwood could possibly not field u/16 or minor teams due to lack of numbers Ballyteague can and in the near future will go back to fielding teams in the minor and u/21 level.as i have said before, why should my club worry about the futures of our nearest rivils. this whole Na Fianna excercise has benefited 1 club, Allenwood , it has allowed the 5 or 6 Allenwood players who come through to play in the Na Fianna teams each year, play at the highest level in that grade that prepares them to play at the highest level when they make the senior team. without Na Fianna i wonder would Allenwood seniors be so successful.
Im not trying to make out Ballyteague would have been more successful if them core underage groups had been kept together but surely keeping players together through the ranks is hugely important in the FUTURE success of your own senior team.... the proof is there as i say with the current Moorefield and Sarsfields teams, the core groups of them teams have played ball on the same teams longer than they can remember... if i was still playing football, i could never see myself at senior level want to share success with fellas from Milltown or Robertstown or any other club for that matter...
all this has put Ballyteague back at least 10 years of where they should be, the next few yyears for my club will be very bleak untill we build up senior numbers again.. the imminent departures of Gavin Smullen to Australia in january along with Peter and Robbie Mccabe who have already left ,all potential county players in their own right, will prove too huge a gap to fill, next year it is inevitable that for the first time in 20 years we wont field a second senior team, there is little doubt in my mind that if we hadnt of joined back up with Na Fianna in 1999, we wouldnt be struggling for numbers AND we wouldnt be losing kep players to immigration if they where part of a successful team with their childhood mates and in turn i am in very little doubt that now we would be playing senior championship football just like our senior teams of the 80s and 90s..
sorry for waffling, i just want to get across my point that amalgamated teams ,DO NOT BENEFIT the players or clubs

firstly i doubt very much that ger naughton played on that under 14 team in 1999 i thought ger was pushing for 30 not 25 maybe one of the moorefield lads might clear this up??

i agree that clubs shouldn`t be amalgamated at under age but i would love to see at senior level the likes of two mile house and eadestown put together for a crack at a few senior teams what ya think mr blobby would ye be able to take a few scelps along the way?

Centreback having known Ger over the years through various teams i know him quite well and also know his age,same as Ross Glavin and he went to shcool with Frostie and paddy tracey in newbridge tech ,see the moorefield team and the report from that day
Moorefield 3-13 Ballyteague 0-2

Moorefield retained their football Feile at Ellistown on Wednesday and now represent Kildare at the All-Ireland Feile in Clare next month.

To their credit the losers fought gallantly and in the first half gave the winners many anxious moments. Moorefield got off to the best possible start with a goal by Barry O’ Shea in the second minute.

The second half was all one way traffic despite the best efforts of a brave Ballyteague side. A procession of well taken scores by Barry O’ Shea, their top scorer Ross Glavin, Michael Treacy and Kevin Murnagahan put them in an unassailable position. In addition to those already mentioned Moorefield were best served by Paddy Treacy, Johnny Maguire, Alan Thorpe, Ger. Naughton and Eddie Crudden. Best for Ballyteague were Peter Maher, Daniel Heavey, Shane Reddy, Thomas Kavanagh, Derek Mooney, Colin Mullins, Craig Mulligan and Joe Kenny.

Moorefield: V. Carroll, D. Collins, P. Treacy, G. Naughton, J. Maguire, A. Thorpe, I. Lonergan, M. Treacy, E. Crudden, D. Flynn, R. Glavin, J. Delaney, B. O’ Shea, T. Kemmy, K. Murnaghan.

Ballyteague: C. Mullins, T. Maher, S. Reddy, K. Brennan, T. Kavanagh, P. maher, B. Mullins, C. Mulligan, D. Heavey, K. Bowers (Capt), J. Kenny, N. Doyle, G. Smullen, D. Mooney, M. O’ Connell.


getting a bit off topic as you said RGB, its not because of one particular group in my club, it has created a 10 year adsence of footballers coming through and IT WAS done to give players the chance to play at a higher level at that age but to no benefit, last Ballyteague player to play senior Kildare was Rob Mccabe, the next now Smullen is leaving..... ? ? ?..
cant see how an amalgamated team could put differences and riviliries aside to compete seriously in a campionship, same problems arise with senior as it does with underage.

can you see moorefield and sarsfields players being content to play on the same team, can you see round towers and ellistown do it, no matter at what grade problems arise with training and team selection, a moorefield selector/manager will want his players to play, a sarsfields selector/manager will want his to play , no matter who is the better

HoA, your post has drifted away from topic a good bit there. Your post is mainly concerned with the experiences of one club in an underage set-up, whereas the topic is about adult amalgamations to compete in the Senior Championship, like in Kerry and Cork.

Aside from that, it's hard to disgree with some of your points. However, I still think you are skimming over the main issue here-player numbers. If Ballyteague (or anyone else for that matter) had the numbers, they would be going it alone. Clubs only amalgamate because they have to, not because they want to.

I also don't agree that Na Fianna has solely benefitted Allenwood. All clubs have benefitted from having their players playing at the top level. You're right to say it reduces the numbers coming through to adult level but those who do come through are of top quality.

It's hard to get right but it's wrong to dismiss the whole concept as useless because one group of underage players didn't come through for one club.

Just spotted your match report there HoA. Ballyteague had four or five of that team (I think) played at adult level. Moorefield had six.

I can see your point about underage set-ups H0A but your totally missing the point here.

If underage teams can field teams alone then they most certainly should although some players including teague players have benifited from playing with Na Fianna.

A senior amalgamation would be a different idea as they still player junior and intermediate championships then the best of the 2/3 teams would play for the senior amalgamation too.

rgb wrote:

I admire your optimism, HoA. The reality is that very few rural clubs are able to have a completely independent underage setup, or if they do, they are playing at a very low level.

Don't forget that Ballyteague (same as the other three clubs in Na Fianna) is a quarter of a rural parish and they might not have the numbers to compete independently over a long period of time.

Anyway, Na Fianna have won a minor and u21 in recent years, so they ain't exactly disastrous either. Admittedly, they might have won more.

Na Fianna's success is completely besides the point... it's how the participating clubs have benefited or been negatively affected that is the point....

Well I was responding to HoA's specific issues rather than the general thread Ogie.

As supersub points out, an adult amalgamation does not affect an individual club's participation in the junior/intermediate championship.

I see HOA's points and agree with some of them, but I don't like the idea of clubs jumping in and out of amalgamations when the population set-up suits for a year or two. Seems to me it would then be a case of wanting it everyway.

rgb wrote:

Well I was responding to HoA's specific issues rather than the general thread Ogie.

As supersub points out, an adult amalgamation does not affect an individual club's participation in the junior/intermediate championship.

Grand job rgb.

I think the amalgamation would affect the clubs' participation in junior/intermediate, because those games could not be played if the divisional side was playing... and given that they're run off as a blitz in Kildare that only leaves mid-week, and what do you do then with replays? And what about training? And what about the minor and U21 championships?

You need to be in charge of your fixtures for it to work, as they are in Cork but as I said before, they have specific divisional boards and ready made divisions, as they do in Kerry. Of course they also have significant population pools.

I don't think it has a prayer of a chance but I'd have no problem trying it out if the board managed to show over a space of two or three years beforehand that they could run a year's fixtures in a pre-planned fashion (obviously with plans B, C and D to allow for what happens with county teams etc.).

You're right Ogie. It could work but the 'blitz system', as you call it, would prevent that. A bit of advance planning could sort it out though.

The thoughts of the best junior/intermediate players playing in the senior championship is intriguing.

it is very intriguing rgb but as pointed out prob wouldn`t work in the championship but can anyone see any problems with doing it in the aldridge cup?

Nothing wrong with trying it in the pre-season tournaments but it would have to be with a view to trying it in the real thing.

It can be made to work but there has to be a will on all sides, both clubs and cunty board.

rgb wrote:

Nothing wrong with trying it in the pre-season tournaments but it would have to be with a view to trying it in the real thing.

It can be made to work but there has to be a will on all sides, both clubs and cunty board.

Hey rgb - did you leave out that 'o' on purpose?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha!- edit, edit, edit! Sure I love the cOunty board, apparently.

By the sound of ur thread HoA you have a bit of chip on your shoulder with Na fianna or the set up with the club, if Ballyteague are struggling with numbers why dont u tog out with them.