KILDARE MINORS 2012

Ah there you are now TOM!!! you made a simliar statement on the Development squad thread and then disappeared. Maybe im wrong, but was there a tiny bit of you happy last night so you could try prove a point??

You say youre not sure that kildare football is serious about winning titles?? what sort of comment is that?? are all the people involved just doing it for the craic? has BM been giving up a lot of his evenings and saturdays over the last few months, time away from his wife and young family, just for fun. I know you were also asked this before, but have you any involvement in underage football? Have you seen any of the U14-U17 development panels train or play? theres about 4-5 mentors involved with each of these panels, why dont you ask them if they are serious about improving Kildare football?

Have to say that Dublin are a very impressive team with no apparent weak links. The no 13 looks a real star of the future and can see him tormenting Kildare defenders for many years to come. I think we have improved a lot in the last 5 years and have been unlucky to come up against Dublin who have progressed to a new level. There is no doubt that they have prevented us from winning a few Leinsters in that period. The question is how do we reach that level that they are at where they combine strength, pace, teamwork, skill and an obvious enjoyment of their football? The only bright spark last night was our goalkeeper, lets hope we can hold on to him for the future.

I wasnt at the game , but are young Hyland and Niall Kelly from Athy still minor this year ?. After watching both of them in senior championship and leinster club action last year , i thought we had genuine stars of the future .

Kelly played last night and along with Paddy Brophy and the Keeper did stand out. Hyland I believe was overage and played for U21 this year.

This might seem a strange comment after last nights result but we are probably the second best team in Leinster and have been for the last 2/3 years. Not only can we not break through against Dublin but the gap has widened. There is no doubt that Dublin have significantly greater resources to call on - player pool, coaching staff and financial but they have developed a different style of play and player. Also I don't see Dublin minors being talked up until they actually achieve something. In Kildare we make excuses when are 'star' men don't perform. This isn't helping anyone not least the player as it creates a false belief that they are good enough to begin with. IMO work needs to be done on player talent development not just on team development. We need players who have the individual confidence and belief to succeed at the highest level not just against the weaker counties. Dublin have it in spades as demonstrated last night.

well done Dublin last night a super 2nd half performance they really blew are lads out of the water. great to see such a big crowd there but a pity that for most it was the only time they saw these lads play. well done to the young lads who by all accounts put in a huge effort to represent their county and put in some fine performances during the year in the earlier rounds and in challenge matches v Tipp and Cork which I was lucky enough to see

The manner of the defeat last night was hard to take but that sometimes happens to young lads. Their heads can drop and shit happens. A few of our lads looked quite nervous and didn't really perform. Chalk it down to experience and hopefully they'll learn from it. There was still a good few players last night who have the potential to become senior inter county players in the future.

Dublin did look a fine outfit but I still believe we are going in the right direction at underage level. Despite the fact that we simply don't have the financial clout that the Dubs have, we still have a strong base in this county from which to build on.

Tipp and Roscommon are two counties in recent years who have shown what can be done. Both counties have produced excellent minor and u21 teams and yet neither county would have a great pedigree behind them. Football would be very much the poor relation with the Tipp public and Roscommon wouldn't have anywhere near the playing population that Kildare have. We are fortunate from a football point of view in Kildare that there is minimal competition from other sports compared to some other counties. We need to capitalise on the great passion for football that there is in the county and encourage kids from a young age. I think the proper structures are being put in place to let young talent develop but it's a long term project and setbacks like last night will occur along the way. Keep the faith.

flourman Hyland was center back last night...

What happened Christensen? injured?
we were cleaned out in the middle thought he was half decent when he played before.

Very dissapointing 2nd half, after what looked very promising 1st half.
Dublin were the better team, no doubting that, however, and I dont want to be over critical here, its only my view of it.
When it was very obvious we were getting murdered in midfield, why wasnt Hyland moved there?, why was Sean Christension not in the 24?, he surely would have helped ( no sub midfielder, Healy or Moore brought on).
Why was Wayne Fitz played at left half forward, and Chris Healy in the corner? made no sence at all?
Paddy Brophy looked lost, moving in and out of full forward, he was abviously very frustrated at the lack of ball coming in.
The midfield and half backs seemed to hand pass the ball backwards / sidewards, never even looking forward to give quick ball, was this the game plan? and some players taking far too much out of the ball, losing it on numerous occasions, trying to beat a player when a better option was on.
Dublin on the other hand moved the ball quickly inside to their dangermen on the full forward line.
Ah well, another Year gone by with no Leinster Minor. Gonna be 22 Years now !!

Tom, i think your missing the point of development squads and there value to minor mentors when these players get to minor age, these mentors know great work has been done with these players all the way through from younger aged development squads, they are not starting from scratch with minor squad and any player who may not have come through development squads and are playing well with there clubs will be brought in for training and trail games, very few players who are doing well with clubs or college team are left behind or lost to other sports, these mentors are constantly monitoring any player who are showing promise.......also, the Corks, Dublin, Tipp, Tyrone and so on have all the development squads for many years like we have and there coaches are all from clubs within there own county.........success doesn't come over night and the work goes on all year round with the various squads and long may it continue......

overthebar I think tomcruise is trying to say that the way the young lads are trained & coached in Kildare has to be changed you probably don't have to change the mentors but the way football is being taught maybe a lot more on ball skills. More and more of the Kildare teams you see now are going down the mobile & athletic way and leaving the ball skills behind

I made a point on the development squads post about warm up routines etc.
I was at an underage match recently where the Kildare lads warm up involved running / jogging / sprinting. The opposition did their warm up drills with the Ball, everything was with the Ball. the opposition in the match were far superior in kicking, soloing, passing. Not much point having a lad with big musscles who cant kick the ball.

Very disappointing last night because I know from watching these lads over the last few years that they are much better than that, so my disappointment is for them. That 22 years that was mentioned in a previous post weighs heavily on the shoulders of these young men and is a monkey that is very hard to shake off but I have no doubt that a team will come along shortly and do just that. Pity it has to wait another year.

Talking to a chap today about the minor match and he's very concerned with the coaching players in Kildare are getting. This guy is old school and a very shrewd judge of footballers and teams. The same guy told me before the Meath match that Meath would beat Kildare by 5-6 points. I can tell you I'm not laughing now.

Anyway he gave an example of a chap from his club who was on the minor panel for the previous two years and when he came back from county duty his skills had regressed to such an extent that the player was unrecognisable to the player that left the club. He couldn't kick a ball to save his life. It took 6 months of being back with the club before the player was back to anywhere near his best.

The above is no definitive proof of anything but it seems to be the natural skills required to make good footballers is being stifled in place of this handpassing going nowhere fast prick football that a lot of Kildare teams now seem to be playing.

archie wrote:

I spoke to one of the panel earlier in the week and he admitted that it was very hard to keep the focus.
They had been training twice or 3 times a week with trips away nearly every weekend and the wait between the last round and the semi was too long.
Overtraining could be a problem.
The panels size is too big.Is there any realistic chance that No. 30-32 will ever get a chance of a game.
I relation to Tom Cruises mention of Development squads, i was at a Bord na nOg meeting where it was mentioned that ALL the under 17/18 team consisted of players that had been on the Development squads for the last 3 years.This got universal approval and praise for the squads.
It was only later it occured to me that this seems to mean if you don't make the under 14 squad your chances of being a minor in 4 years time are slim.Are we missing out on players that mature later.

this present minor squad consisted off players from last years squad , lads from de 17s , players sent in from clubs and lads off de vec squad . Think any lad interested was looked at . The dubs looked very impressive

Umpire
Sean Christanseen was dropped : first from team to subs and last wed. to outside the first 22.

Archie, any idea why? saw him play first game and though he played well, also as someone as said here, thought he could have been an option when our midfield was under pressure.

Sean was dropped from the 24, and I agree completely, he would certainly have being more of a help than hindrence if introduced versus Dublin, when you are considering the battering we were getting there. its a strange one indeed, as is the ommision of Decky Flaherty from the 24.
I agree with ballyboy, these lads are not that bad, and at half time the signs were good. remember we were supposed to have the breeze in the 2nd half, whatever happened to that ??
I think from previous posts 15 or 16 of the panel are underage again next Year, which is promising. Maybe lillyboy can shed some exacts on that?
As for the Management, there can be no doubts they put in a huge effort, and fair play, but IMO its time for a change, and I hear the name of Declan Cryan being mentioned (Maynooth & VEC Manager, for thoses who dont know him), not a bad choice IMO if hes interested.
Maybe next Year folks !!

It's amazing how these stories and criticisms only come out after a defeat. I can't recall too many complaints after the Wexford or Louth matches.

kickingking the coaching of young players in Kildare is brought up a lot on here not only in defeat. I said in an earlier post most Kildare underage teams you see now are more athletes than footballers and this is down to the coaching, the under 21 team this year were totally out played by Offaly in football ok Kildare were mobile but Offaly had the better footballers again the same the other night the minor team were fit but Dublin were way ahead with there football skills.

steviegenius wrote:

kickingking the coaching of young players in Kildare is brought up a lot on here not only in defeat. I said in an earlier post most Kildare underage teams you see now are more athletes than footballers and this is down to the coaching, the under 21 team this year were totally out played by Offaly in football ok Kildare were mobile but Offaly had the better footballers again the same the other night the minor team were fit but Dublin were way ahead with there football skills.

I do agree that there needs to be more emphasis on the basic skills but that applies across the board, not just at underage in Kildare. There's plenty of senior intercounty players who are highly rated around the country who possess very poor kicking techniques. I read an article about Crossmaglen recently and it's no coincidence that they're so successful. Each underage player has the basic kicking technique drummed into them and they're all encouraged to use their weaker foot. I was at a club u14 match in Kildare a few months ago and I heard a mentor tell a forward to stop shooting with his weaker foot because he had kicked three wides.

My criticism is that there is far too many knee jerk reactions and sensationalist nonsense after defeats. Would there have been many people questioning the skill levels of the Kildare players at half time on Wednesday night? I don't think so.

We got a bit of a run around by a very good team in the second half. That can happen to young lads and their heads can drop very quickly once they leak a few scores. That's championship football, you have one bad night at the office or you come up against a team who play out of their skins and you're out. It doesn't make the lads involved bad players. The Johnny Doyle's, Dermot Earley's and Glenn Ryan's of this world lost games at underage level too.

Championship football can be cruel as the minors found out on Wednesday, while it was a very disappointing 2nd half for us watching how much worse must it have been for the players.it was probably no worse a performance than the seniors against Meath but they seniors have a chance to redeem themselves on Sunday while the minors are finished. Credit Dublin to for a fine display. I believe 7 of the starting team are underage next year so whoever comes in has talent to work with. I was lucky enough to see these lads a few times this year and they put in some fine performances and I congratulate them for their efforts. Hopefully a few of these lads will go on and play senior

Of course theres gonna be a knee jerk reaction when we get beat kickingking, and lillyboy is correct, they did perform very well in lots of games. But the point is WE keep getting beating at the crucial stage, and we can make the point all Day long that the Dubs were far superior (as they were 2nd half). But as we have won nothing since 1991, other counties like Laois, Longford, Offaly, and Westmeath have. So I am sorry but I have to agree with stevieG, We need to develope our players footballing skills, and not train the skills out of them !

SeamusMurphy wrote:

Of course theres gonna be a knee jerk reaction when we get beat kickingking, and lillyboy is correct, they did perform very well in lots of games. But the point is WE keep getting beating at the crucial stage, and we can make the point all Day long that the Dubs were far superior (as they were 2nd half). But as we have won nothing since 1991, other counties like Laois, Longford, Offaly, and Westmeath have. So I am sorry but I have to agree with stevieG, We need to develope our players footballing skills, and not train the skills out of them !

You have sort of missed my point. There were very few complaints after the Wexford and Louth matches, and I guess at half time on Wednesday when the scores were level, yet when they lost we suddenly are training the football out of these lads and producing athletes and not footballers. It's too simplistic and too easy an excuse. I remember for years people saying that our underage teams were not up to it physically - you can't win.

It's a similar story with the seniors. Prior to the Meath game a lot of people were talking up our prospects this year and one poor performance later the same people are telling us that a number of the players are simply not up to the level required. The reality always lies somewhere in between.

I got your point, and like I said there will always be postmortems when we lose, its the nature of the beast im afraid, and I suppose were on here to give our own opinions, rightly or wrongly. I have mine, you have yours. Thats the Forum for ya.
Dont want to repeat myself, but I did raise this issue of over training / running well before the Dublin game on the dev squad post.
stevieG point re: the u21s is correct as such, we looked like a senior team versus an u16 team (Offaly), but they seemed to find it easier to score than we did.
The same has to be said with the minors v Dublin. We had 10 - 15 handpasses etc before we get into the scoring zone, Dublin moved the ball in there more direct and precise. Our slow ball allowed the dubs to funnell back players and crowd the space.