KILDARE MINORS 2012

This talk of players not being coached the right way is bollix. I doubt any of you have a clue what your talking about when it comes to training young teams. I have been down to watch the minors train once or twice this year and yes they did a good bit of running etc but not before they had the ball in there hands for an hour or so. From what i saw intensity was always high in training and they did the basics of kick passing,hand passing etc... the commitment showing by the lads was exceptional throughout the year. I can ensure that not another minor team in the country trained as hard as ours and the boys backed by the management did everything they could

Looking back on the match and i felt a few postional changes didnt help (wanye fitz)(chris healy). I felt scoring power was lacking (maybe fitzgibbon would have offered more on that front) I cannot understand the why young sean C from Clane was dropped as well.

can anyone tell me what club the goalkeeper is from??
Last thing i would like to say is the future is bright for kildare football kelly and hyland look like strong players for the future.

cill dara abu!!!!!!!!

What a refreshing post from Mickman. Maybe a little crude, but the pain of defeat is ringing out.

The opinions being offered on this thread IMO reflect the best and the worst that these forums have to offer. I respect the right of those who contribute to voice their opinions and their right to remain anonymous but with that right comes a level of responsibility to balance accuracy and fairness.

Here’s my take on events.

Dublin are revelling in their perception that they are a great team who blew away the challenge of this fancied Kildare side and the hurlers on the ditch in Kildare are falling over themselves to agree. The facts support that analysis, if taken only in the context of 20 minutes of football last Wednesday. Tom commented earlier in this thread that he would reserve judgement on this Kildare team until they had played Dublin and now he seems justified in holding his counsel. I would recommend that he does so again, until the championship plays out. I don’t consider Dublin an exceptional team. I don’t consider them to be in the same league as last year’s Dublin minors, who were an exceptional team but who did not get the reward that they deserved. I consider this year’s Kildare team in the same light as last year’s Dublin team, a very talented set of players who, in a short period in a single game undid so much of their hard work and left their promise unfulfilled, at least for now.

Don’t forget that Kildare’s minors played 16 matches prior to last week’s game, and won 14 of them. Along the way, they defeated last year’s Munster and All Ireland champions, Tipperary, Kerry, Cork (3 times), last year’s Ulster champions, Cavan, Tyrone, Wexford, Louth, Leitrim, Westmeath (twice), Limerick and the Celbridge senior team. On the other side of the balance sheet only Tipperary (1 point) and Roscommon (playing Kildare’s second string) defeated them. The Tyrone manager was heard to remark that he was ‘emotionally scarred’ after being comprehensively beaten in St Conleth’s park, but luckily for Tyrone, one bad day at the office didn’t spell the end of their season.

I’m amazed at the general opinion now being expressed on this thread that this Kildare team lacked flair and that their concentration on fitness and running disadvantaged them against a more skilful Dublin team. With the notable exceptions of McHugh and Costello (who are very skilful players), this Dublin outfit are ordinary exponents of the finer skills but they are marvellous runners. Running has been the backbone of the Dublin minor success in the past number of years (with last year being the notable exception) and is clearly the backbone of their senior team’s approach. Dublin are an honest bunch of mobile lads who give it their all, and when they’re spent, they have more of the same on the bench. It doesn’t matter much who comes in or who goes out, because their lack of specialist skill gives them unusual flexibility on the bench. This flexibility is well demonstrated by guys who line out at wing forward v Carlow, at wing back v Longford and at corner forward v Kildare. The guy in question is not an exceptionally skilful forward, nor is he an exceptional defender, but he is an exceptional runner with an exceptional engine who can also execute the basic skills of the game adequately.

Last Wednesday, Dublin played the game the way that they normally do, running hard at their opponents half backs and alternating with some long balls delivered directly to the full forward line. They scored 2-16, which is slightly ahead of their average score (2-14). They executed their game plan effectively and crucially they kept their tempo high. By contrast, Kildare did not play in the way that has been successful for them all year, i.e. moving quickly through midfield, delivering targeted balls quickly into the full forward line and following at pace from the half forwards. They brought slow ball into contact with Dublin’s defence repeatedly and enabled defenders who are individually poor tacklers, but excellent at swarming, to play the game on those terms. That was disappointing. That wasn’t planned. There was no material difference in the strength and conditioning of the two squads. There was no material difference in their average scores in their championship games. There was no material difference in many aspects, but on Wednesday night, the one key difference was that Kildare failed to execute their own game plan.

Failing to play to your own strengths and playing to your opponent’s strengths; it frequently happens to youngsters who don’t have a lot of experience of tension and opportunity. It also happens from time to time to senior sport stars that have buckets of experience. The winning line is often very hard to cross, especially when success in your county has been limited and when the hope of striving for unparalleled success brings with it the risk of catastrophic failure. With 25 minutes remaining last week, the Kildare minors were within sight of that line. They were ahead in the game, without having moved through any of the normal gears. Victory would have meant a second Leinster final appearance in 4 years, with every chance of success. Even more, it would have meant a place in the last 8 of the All Ireland series, with no team left that presented a challenge that hadn’t already been faced and beaten. A first All Ireland title at minor level that had been striven for through sleet and rain and puke was attainable, if only that line could be crossed.

Events took a turn and a fabulous bunch of talented footballers are left to ponder ‘What if?’

And Tom is left to wonder what he’s going to direct his ire at next...

Mickman, I salute you. My heart is broken too.

Lads and lassies. Dublin are ahead of us regarding coachinf structure and money. I saw the dublin u-16 team train last year during the day on a friday (let out from school to train) and I could not get over the size of them. They were hugh and all fine athletes. Now with that they all looked very good on the ball and looked to have plenty of skill. So When we play dublin at minor downward I expect that (at the moment) we have top play our best and they have to have an off day

gaahead09. WOW.

I would love to have the time to even consider responding to that post, bur I think you left out the fact that the Management made some positional changes, and they may also (by the look of things) changed the gameplan.
I dont want to criticise your time and effort of such an exellent post, but is it as simple as, in future lets just get the fastest, strongest runners, and teach them the basics??

Botch, Kildare beat that Dublin team in the Leinster u 16 final last year. Seamus you have seen as much of this Kildare minor team over the last few years as I have, from U 14 they have played all over the country and in a 4 year period you could count on ONE had the number of games lost. They did not perform in the second half against Dublin its a simple as that, the level of expectation seemed to weigh heavily on their shoulders but this is something that all Kildare teams seem to have a problem with not just the minors.

Have read a lot of comments regarding coaching methods and ''basic skills'' . Basic skills is something that players are expected to have coming into a county squad, if they don't then they shouldn't be there, basic skills should be honed at club level so if there is a problem with the basic's then its at club level this needs to be addressed. Traditionally all Kildare teams have a particular way of playing which imo is easy enough to defend against, they are always encouraged to hit the runner coming off the shoulder, now there is nothing wrong with that in certain parts of the field, but Kildare teams do it far to deep. This in imo creates a problem for the forwards as the guy on the ball is not looking forward is is nearly always looking back, this gives teams time to funnel back. From a defensive point of view by moving up the field with lateral passes you leave spaces at the back which hard running teams like Dublin will exploit

And that lads and lassies is my 2 bobs worth

Mickman and GaaHead09

Well done with your posts which are extremely well articulated and probably bordering on being over patriotic. I am not going to argue with same but I would ask you both why you consider that the future of Kildare football is bright and what a talented and fabulous group of footballers we have based on the Kildare minor team of 2012. Based on their performance last week , this is simply not the case. You make excuses for their performance but to be honest , I have been hearing this since I was born and have seen generations of players ( and I know must of them ) being blown out of all proportion within the county but achieving nothing outside of it. And you are both continuing this argument and I simply do not understand where it comes from. Winning challenge games means nothing to me and the real tests lie in the championship and how you perform in same. So until our underage teams start winning Leinster ( or even playing well in same ) and AIs , I will remain pessimistic about our future going forward.

ps I am not sure how this Dublin minor team will perform in 2012 but they were simply streets ahead of Kildare last week in every way. You are only fooling yourselves by thinking otherwise.

The biggest tactical flaw that I could see was that the Kildare half backs left the Dublin half forwards run free once they got as far as midfield, then when Dublin got the ball and were at full tilt they were running into static half backs who could do nothing to stop them. This also contributed to Dublin getting most of the loose breaks and the half forwards and midfield were outnumbered.
It played perfectly into Dublins strengths and they were excellent it must be said.
Dublins half forwards midfield and half backs were a unit in attacking and defending. It must have been seriously frustrating to be a half forward or midfielder who were consistently 1 on 2, or 2 on 3. In the end the Dubs looked so much better because there are only so many times you can chase around or track back to no avail. I'm not saying the half backs are bad players because they are not but they looked like statues compared to the Dublin half backs and they were obviously under instruction not to wander out of position.

That is good to hear Ballyboy. I just could not get over the training and the speed and size of these lads.

tomcruise wrote:

...I would ask you both why you consider that the future of Kildare football is bright and what a talented and fabulous group of footballers we have based on the Kildare minor team of 2012. Based on their performance last week , this is simply not the case.

... Winning challenge games means nothing to me and the real tests lie in the championship and how you perform in same. So until our underage teams start winning Leinster ( or even playing well in same ) and AIs , I will remain pessimistic about our future going forward.

Hey Tom - In answer to the first part, I have confidence in my opinion that this group of players is very talented because I didn't just turn up once and base my opinion on one performance. I have travelled the country supporting this team and I know from the experience of many performances what they are capable of. I can only imagine what you might have posted if we had a forum back in 1996 when Sonia O'Sullivan had a meltdown in the Atlanta olympics. Sometimes shit happens and great performers underperform. You should get out more!

Let's look at the facts in relation to the championship (your second point). In the past 4 years Dublin and Kildare have played each other in 8 championship games. Dublin won 3, Kildare won 2 and 3 were drawn. Those are the facts. In the past 3 years (and this year will probably follow suit), the only team to have beaten Kildare in the Leinster championship went on to win the Leinster Championship.

The team that defeated Kildare in the All Ireland Series in 2009 (Armagh) also went on to win the All Ireland. Maybe you weren't at the All Ireland quarter final in Breffni Park either, but I remember the Armagh goalie making a game winning save (from Sean Hurley I think) with 5 minutes to go when they led by just 2 points and Kildare were rampant, and they went on to beat Kerry and Mayo to lift the crown. Mind you, Kildare had beaten Mayo on 3 occasions during that year and by significant margins.

On very small margins are championships won and lost.

BTW - Cork haven't won a minor All Ireland for 12 years, Kerry for 17 years, Dublin for 27 years and Donegal have never won it. And yet, these are considered by many to be the top 4 senior teams in the country. Go figure...

Kildare minors have been really unlucky over the last 4 years. As the record above shows they have beaten Dublin and drawn with them more often than they have lost to them. The big problem last week was that they allowed Dublin to play the game they wanted to play, maybe that was a management decision. I think they are better than that and many of them have bright futures ahead of them. Sadly there seems to be an unlucky gene in our DNA.

That was the point I made earlier ballyboy !, Half backs and midfielders not putting the ball into the scoring zone quick enough, hand passing it for the sake of it, quick frees going backwards and lateral, no one ever looking up, and delivering quick decent ball. Why ? Clubs fault ? No game plan and tactics designed and carried out in training sessions I would imagine?
I also made the point prior to the match that I believed we had the inside scoring forwards to win, if they got enough supply, which they did not.

Well lads whatever the rights or wrongs another year goes by without " silverware" , while its not the only measure of success its long overdue. So what can we all do to improve things?
Probably no easy answer but one thing is certain if we as a county give up and accept defeat things will always remain the same. Club championship is just around the corner so good luck to them all and keep on trying

Seamus you ask several questions, I can't answer them but I can give my opinion, you have seen more of that minor squad over the last few months than I have, I am quite sure to get to a semi final there was a game plan, but then maybe just maybe that was the problem, with underage teams the best game plan in the world will go out the window when the opposition don't cooperate.

Lets see who will be the new Management team, and maybe bring new ideas and freshness to it. Lets hope that next Year will be our Year.
I did forget to mention about the huge support they got on the night, it was great to see.

Draw for Round 1 of the Minor Championship

Leixlip v Round Towers
Maynooth v Athy
Moorefield v Kilcock
Celbridge v Clane
Naas v Two Mile House
Sarsfields v Castledermot

Who is the fancy here? Celbo again?

So the Dubs were not so bad, stuffed Mighty Meath

I expect to see a few of this year's Kildare crop make good in 3 or 4 years time.

And a few is all you need, 2 or 3 out of every year's team, to keep the thing running along. And it mightn't even be the obvious ones.

Fair Team alright. Could be hard stopped.

I go for Celbridge ( A ), Kill ( B ), Rathangan ( C ).

Be nice to see Rathangan win the c after losing the last 2 finals. Celbridge will be favorites but on any given day 4 or 5 teams could beat them in a one off contest. Interesting that 2 mile house have gone from div 3 to the A championship. The B looks wide open this year

Just shows ya, How were TMH in Div 3 in all fairness, some cock up there. They wont win the A Champ, but I bet wont be put to shame either.
I agree the B Champ does look open, and its a hard one, probably the hardest one to call, Balyna, Plunketts, Confey, Monasterevin and Suncroft will fancy their chances, but I think its between Kill and Raheens. IT would be nice to see Rathangan win a Champ, However I think they were strong enough to be in the B Champ, and would have been had they not choked v Roberstown in the League Final.

Minor 'A' Championship results

St. Mary's Football Club Leixlip 1-8 V 1-13 Round Towers
Maynooth 1-15 V 0-10 Athy
Moorefield 0-4 V 2-13 Kilcock
Celbridge 3-17 V 1-6 Clane
Naas 0-11 V 1-11 Two Mile House/Teach Dhá Mhíle
Sarsfields 2-10 V 2-13 Castledermot

Losses for Athy, Moorefield, Naas & Sarsfields. Wins for the Div. 2 (Castledermot) and Div. 3 (TMH) league winners. Very interesting start to the 'A' Championship. I see Athy have drawn Celbridge in Round 2 as well, which puts them under pressure to qualify for the knockout stages.



Minor A Football Championship Draw Round 2

Castledermot-v-Naas
Celbridge-v-Athy
Round Towers-v-Moorefield
Two Mile House-v-Leixlip
Kilcock-v-Clane
Sarsfields-v-Maynooth

Was this draw done so that 1st round winners must play first round losers or was that just coincidence?

With the club minor championship now in full swing I hope somebody in the know is sorting out next years minor management, preparation for this usually begins in Oct, I know the u17's management have been working away prior to minor championship and will resume as soon as its over

Ballyboy are you looking for minor miracles
But your right, it should be sorted asap.
Maybe the reason we have no new talent coming trough at senior, is the lack of success at minor / u21.
I suppose we were unlucky this Year meeting the dubs, as was shown at the weekend with Dublin hammering Monaghan, and Meath beating Tyrone.
Jesus Roscommon must be sick, how did they lose that one to Kerry??