Dublin v Kildare

Westside wrote:

kickingking wrote:

Ogie wrote:

What we seem to need right now though are one are two proper backs, dirty, mean, up-your-arse and in-your-ear bastards. There's probably one in the squad right now and he's not fit. You need more than one.

This the type of player that we just don't seem to produce through the development squads. Apart from Peter Kelly, we haven't brought one through since McLoughlin and he was u21 ten years ago. We have had some fine full back players like Foley, McGrillen and Lyons but they are all more footballing types who would probably prefer to be further out the field rather than spoilers. I expect Hyland will prove to be similar to those three in that he can do a job in the full back line but would be more effective as a half back. O'Grady has shown some promise but it is early days.

Why isn't the development squad system producing those sticky corner back types whose modus operandi is to spoil every fancy Dan corner forward's day? If you look at the Kildare team on Saturday, most of those lads graduated straight from u21 to the senior ranks. The days of the late developing type who blossoms in his mid twenties and is battle hardened from the club scene appear to be on the way out. For all the nice skillful footballers that are produced through the development squad system, are there enough hardy lads who can stop opponents playing despite being more limited skillwise being considered? Is it a case that the best and most skillful footballers are being selected at u14, u16 and minor level and then being converted into defenders?

Thats a rubbish statement what difference does it make if a lad is a dirty b*stard or squeky clean as long as he keeps his man out of the game. I dont remember Bernard Brogan, Paddy McBrearty or Colm O'Neill who are considered the best in the country getting too many scores off Lyons or Kelly over the last couple of years and they are two completely different markers. The problem is neither are fit.

I'm not talking about dirty players or anything like that. I'm talking about the style of player. Take Marc Ó Sé for example, probably the best man marker of his generation. He can outplay most forwards he comes up against and has done for the last ten years but not every defender can be Marc Ó Sé. Mark O'Reilly of Meath was a completely different type of man marker but was just as effective on his day. He never had as big an impact on a game as Ó Sé could have but he could always put a top forward off his game through touch tight marking, knowing when to stand off, when to commit, when to force a guy wide etc.

We just don't produce enough of those types of defenders anymore. Most of the players we have brought through from the minor and u21 teams over the past few years have been forwards and midfielders.

I'm not saying he is necessarily a Mark O'Reilly type sticky defender but I was surprised Michael Konstantine was let go in January. Maybe the Carlow game (which was a mess) wasn't his best day but at minor under 21 and club level he has always done pretty well usually against the opposition's best forward. Has the kind of doggedness that would be handy in this team.

Thought the same about Konstantin, who was young enough to persevere with.

As someone reared on Kildare teams backboned by Paddy O'Donoghue, John Crofton, Davy Dalton and Brian Lacey it is indeed sad that we are having this discussion. The same with the CB problem when I think back (again maybe through rose tinted glasses) at Glen Ryan. Kildare in my life time always had a tradition of having some teak tough defenders who soldiered on while the fancy dans at the other end were squandering chances to beat the band.

Where indeed have all the dirty bastards gone ? Are there any obvious ones in the club game who could come in? They'd need to be cute dirty bastards nowadays given the sanitisation of the game thanks to the black card.

Crofter wrote:

Where indeed have all the dirty bastards gone ? Are there any obvious ones in the club game who could come in?

Many, they probably aren't up to an intercounty/club first-team standard though!

TommyKeegan wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Where indeed have all the dirty bastards gone ? Are there any obvious ones in the club game who could come in?

Many, they probably aren't up to an intercounty/club first-team standard though!

Live television has a lot to answer for...

TommyKeegan wrote:

An issue I've looked at closely over a number of years (this doesn't excuse the weekend as they were missing their entire attack and many of their chances and scores came from our mistakes) and really believe no. I've based this on three things. Money, numbers and coaches/facilities. One or two of them on their own makes difference but at a time where GAA is now science rather than sweat like when Paidi could work a lesser team into a frenzy and stun a better side, having all three in place changes the game completely. Worse again, there is exponential growth. Winning will lead to more money, will lead to more players with better coaches from a younger age, will lead to more winning and so on. I get when people say here that we need to get our own house in order and that is true. But even, as a huge county in our own right, we did everything Dublin did, the gap would still become greater over time. It's my belief the Leinster Championship has slowly become redundant, that will continue, but it's also my belief that it'll get to a stage over the coming years where no one can compete with Dublin. Already the smaller counties have lost interest (many Carlow under-21s stopped returning calls from their selectors when they drew Dublin), but that will become more and more common. Having a side with most of the money, most of the players and most of everything else isn't good for a sport.

Jesus I'm almost sorry I asked! But they are very strong and they seem to be getting stronger each year. They are guaranteed an AI semi-final this year and from that point there are only a very select group who might beat them. Don't see Kerry doing it without Gooch and I think Mayo would just bottle it as usual. Which leaves Cork and, playing at their best, Donegal. Maybe Tyrone on an extremely good day. Christ! The end times are here!

As for Kildare over the next few years, I'd like to think if we keep building our chance will come, but I think the smart money is on Dublin equalling their six consecutive Leinsters from the 70s, and tagging on another couple of All Irelands into the bargain. Btw, if they do equal that six Leinsters in a row, they will have won - wait for it - 11 out of 12. At which point the Leinster Council and the GAA might feel compelled to do something.

I suppose a limited Meath team were close to them for an hour last year and Mayo could have snatched a draw despite misfiring, but we really have an awful lot of work to do before we could even think about pushing them. I'll settle for avoiding relegation first.

The point imo about the type of players produced is a valid one, I think there is a tendency in Kildare to dismiss this sort of player and also to shy away from coaches who encourage it. Now there is a fine line but I believe we are far to nice at times. Down through the years we have all seen Kildare player's being bullied and their response is to a turn to the ref with flailing arms, seen it Saturday evening when our target for kick outs got crowded out. Our most recent exponent of this type of defender Andrew McLoughlin was regularly vilified on this forum and elsewhere.

Seamus Moynihan was undoubtedly one of the great clean players of the 00's but when faced with Colin Corkery resorted to the black arts to get the job done. I can't think of one player in our squad who would be firstly cynical enough and secondly cute enough to get away with it. Kildare reputation has always been, lovely footballers if you let them play

ballyboy wrote:

The point imo about the type of players produced is a valid one, I think there is a tendency in Kildare to dismiss this sort of player and also to shy away from coaches who encourage it. Now there is a fine line  but I believe we are far to nice at times. Down through the years we have all seen Kildare player's being bullied and their response is to a turn to the ref with flailing arms, seen it Saturday evening when our target for kick outs got crowded out. Our most recent exponent of this type of defender Andrew McLoughlin was regularly vilified on this forum and elsewhere.

Seamus Moynihan was undoubtedly one of the great clean players of the 00's but when faced with Colin Corkery resorted to the black arts to get the job done. I can't think of one player in our squad who would be firstly cynical enough and secondly cute enough to get away with it. Kildare reputation has always been, lovely footballers if you let them play  

He was villified because he gave away a free nearly every time his man got the ball and was taking to the cleaners on a number of occassions. Some of the sh*te on here beggars belief.

It can be a bit of the which came first the chicken or the egg, without the football ability a player can be as committed or physical as he wants but it will only carry him so far and this is seldom more than club level. At the end of the day it comes down to players having the balls to stand up for themselves and to do it in a controlled manner. Heffo had the motto do onto others before they do it to you. All great teams across all sports have the ability to impose their will on the game and do what the have to do to achieve this. Call it leadership, taking responsibility or whatever but it's a value that we need to discover fairly lively

Sometimes this forum is like an Episode of the Sunday Game - people are trying to make more controversial statements than the previous!!! And some crap too!!! I'm off to Cheltenham ......

They're not statements Mick, just opinions, you are not required to agree. I did say it was a fine line Westside and he did cross it but not as often as you claim and the one he is remembered for most wasn't a free at all

after reading most of the comments on this forum i think kildare are a job in progress at this time ,a leinster final would be a great boost to reach this year and that is possible with a few back from injury etc we will be in a good position to have players fighting for the jersey and a bit of smartness using the ball and getting the backline tight not going man for man like we did last saturday v dubs it was tried last year and we were hammered we just do not have the pace and power to stop their runners we were passing to lateral again not attacking with pace and we could not put them under any pressure but its only march and who knows when cship starts

micky murphy wrote:

Sometimes this forum is like an Episode of the Sunday Game - people are trying to make more controversial statements than the previous!!! And some crap too!!! I'm off to Cheltenham ......  

An offshoot of farming!

ballyboy wrote:

seen it Saturday evening when our target for kick outs got crowded out.  

Now refs have a lot to answer for. I counted 7 fouls on that player in the first which were let go.

That situation also needs a response------------ a high hanger for the offender to stand under and a guy coming at pace from behind jumping in a tuck position. Shay Fahy was pretty good at it ! His Galway background no doubt.............

Indeed Kelf but again I say sometimes we are just to nice.