Kildare V Dublin, Leinster S/Final

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

Anyway, lads, things could be worse - we could be Meath. Not that of any of us are enjoying any of that of course.

Typical, enjoy the plight of others to make us think we are not that bad.
Truth is we are a Div3 team, played like a Div3 team and deserve to be in Div3 and until we stop having these false opinions of ourselves we will stay a Div3 team...
But its alright tho' sure didn't we beat Laois Probably because the knew they had no hope against the Dubs and sat back and let us go on to take the biggest beating of our lives.
Who's laughing now

Borderline wrote:

But its alright tho' sure didn't we beat Laois  Probably because the knew they had no hope against the Dubs and sat back and let us go on to take the biggest beating of our lives.
Who's laughing now

Dublin?

Westmeath?

Antrim?

Anyway... Offaly game? Suppose someone should start a new thread? Jaysus lads if we don't win this one we'll have really hit rock bottom.

Is throw in at 2 or 3?

i would start from scratch again cull the panel and get in players with bottle no need to pussyfoot around it do it now kildare in div 3 in leauge time to give youth a fling starting with offaly nothing to loose

2pm, MD.

e.s.b. wrote:

Any word on Ollie Lyons injury? he seemed to hurt his hand early on breaking the ball away from Brogan but haven't heard any mention of what damage he did

Broken finger apparently.

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

Anyway... Offaly game? Suppose someone should start a new thread? Jaysus lads if we don't win this one we'll have really hit rock bottom.

There's already one HG.

As for the game I joked earlier that I had deliberately booked holidays to avoid it. Flew back in late last night and having avoided the result sat down to watch a full recording this morning. For me it was the most shambolic embarrassment of a performance I've seen in my 40 years watching Kildare and that's saying something. The closest I can think of is the 1978 final but it's hard to remember the details of that other than we lost by 11 and would have been 14 only for a late Denis Dalton goal. Manager and players should hang their heads in shame. Not one player had the gumption to put it up to a Dublin player. The manager thinks he parked the bus? He may as well have driven some dinky toys on there.
Having been optimistic we'd beat Offaly I'm not so sure. Ryan seems to engender no trust from the Kildare players and as such has lost the dressing room. If Offaly are up for it they can win. We should do it but our players are spineless and are without leadership on or off the field. That's a recipe for the sort of qualifier disaster that befell us in the 00's before he who must not be named arrived to turn our mentality on its head.

Thanks heavens for the minors - raging I missed that one and will miss the final as away with work that week end.

From GAA Fixtures
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship 2015
Round 2A
Offaly V Kildare
O'Connor Park
More info
3 00 PM

Referee: Conor Lane

Crofter wrote:

Manager and players should hang their heads in shame. Not one player had the gumption to put it up to a Dublin player.

I disagree Crofter - I think a number of the players DID stand up for themselves and the jersey.
I have no comment to make on management - my thoughts are well known from elsewhere - but in my view a number of the lads stood their ground and battled hard. I wouldn't tar all the players with the same brush.
And well done to the minors!

Kildare players are not spineless Crofter.

I think that is harsh to say that Kildare players are spineless...personally I'd say they are a team whose confidence is shot to pieces and know that they are on a hiding to nothing. What could go wrong for them is going wrong.

I also think what is evident from the Dublin game is the following amongst a whole host of other things:

1. Dublin are on a different planet to where Kildare are at in most facets of the game...pace, power, organistation, strength in their panel. You've gotta to remember this is a Dublin team that is an experienced side that is a few years down the line in terms of development. Their approach has been tweaked slightly under Gavin from when Gilroy was there. Right now they are the best team in the land, whereas Kildare are a Division 3 team in every aspect of their play.

2. The lack of big game experience in the Kildare team is crippling. The likes of JD, Earley, Roli and Daryl Flynn have never been replaced. Leper is the most experienced still there but time looks like it has caught up on his legs unfortunately.

3. It also has to be admitted that the quality in this current Kildare panel just isn't there anymore. There is potential with some but in general terms what you see is what you get with them as a package. Remember, apart from the experienced guys mentioned above who we lost, Hurley, Flynn, Brophy and Keith Cribbin (injury) are gone too.

4. The turnover in players in the past 12-18 months in the Kildare ranks is probably taking longer than expected to bear fruit. I'd love to know the average age but I would imagine it's 23/24 years at most, many of whom have had limited inter-county experience at senior level.

5. That being said, it seems to me that some of the players are playing as if they don't have confidence in the management team. Too often they are lethargic and when you see your manager not knowing what inspired the turnaround during the replay win over Laois then I would be slightly concerned too. His comments before and after games are hardly the most inspiring.

5. Jason Ryan has proven himself to be very naieve in setting up his teams. People say he used a sweeper in Chalky against the Dubs but Chalky didn't play like a sweeper...Kildare resembled how Westmeath played against Meath in the first half, in that the sweeper/additional defensive reinforcements dropped back into the spaces but had very little influence on the game as it unfolded in front of them. The lack of intensity and the half-hearted tackling was disappointing.

6. The lack of pace in Kildare's attacking play is pitiful...again I ask are players going through the motions under Ryan or is there a bigger problem, like are they simply not good enough? That is a question for another day though.

But hey, as is always the case with us Kildare people, we can continue to do a Liverpool and say next year will be our year!

I just hope that if Ryan is gone by then, which I imagine he will be either by his own choice or that of the CB, the next appointment is properly thought out because he is the guy who will shape Kildare's future in the next couple of years, and we all know things can't get much worse than they are right now.

Awful result, no denying that, but Cork, Monaghan, Mayo, and Meath all suffered similar results against Dublin in the past couple of seasons. Are all their players spineless? Were the Dublinplayers destroyed by Kerry Iin 2009 spineless?
Criticism is fine but some of the reaction on here is childish.

Good post there Radley Park, an honest and stark appraisal of where we are now. We do need a complete overhaul of the squad starting with the manager and selectors. The next manager has to be a modern manager with up to date methods. If we appoint someone from the merry go round of managers like Laois did last time it will only make things worse.
The obvious candidate is O'Neill who hopefully could be persuaded to manage his own county. He brings a wealth of experience from his time with successful counties.
It would be a good time for him with expectations so low and the benefits of easier competittion in Div 3 to try out new players. There is no doubt we need new players now and some of the U21 team should be given priority.
We are not going to win anything soon and are going to have to be patient. Keep investing in the underage systems and keep producing players like those minors last sunday. We can rise again but we are starting from a very low base.
Dont forget how bad things were in 89 and 07 and how 2 new managers revived hopes. It can happen again if we get the next appointment right.

murof wrote:

Good post there Radley Park, an honest and stark appraisal of where we are now. We do need a complete overhaul of the squad starting with the manager and selectors. The next manager has to be a modern manager with up to date methods. If we appoint someone from the merry go round of managers like Laois did last time it will only make things worse.
The obvious candidate is O'Neill who hopefully could be persuaded to manage his own county. He brings a wealth of experience from his time with successful counties.
It would be a good time for him with expectations so low and the benefits of easier competittion in Div 3 to try out new players. There is no doubt we need new players now and some of the U21 team should be given priority.
We are not going to win anything soon and are going to have to be patient. Keep investing in the underage systems and keep producing players like those minors last sunday. We can rise again but we are starting from a very low base.
Dont forget how bad things were in 89 and 07 and how 2 new managers revived hopes. It can happen again if we get the next appointment right.

I've heard a lot about Cian O'Neill but has he actually managed a team himself, even at club level? It seems like he's an excellent trainer but would he be able to set out a team tactically to deal with the likes of Dublin?

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Kildare players are not spineless Crofter.

They were on Sunday - we all asked for them to approach it like war.. we should have got the French in..

One or two had a bit of a go alright but that's about it.

Sorry, I don't like saying that and am usually much more moderate in my view but that was shambolic stuff.

Crofter wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Kildare players are not spineless Crofter.

They were on Sunday - we all asked for them to approach it like war.. we should have got the French in..

One or two had a bit of a go alright but that's about it.

Sorry, I don't like saying that and am usually much more moderate in my view but that was shambolic stuff.

Agree with this. They were beaten before they took the field as things transpired. Saw plenty of lads tracking back etc but there was little or no effort to get a tackle in or put any pressure on the Dublin player. It was as if some were happy to hide.
Whilst management should shoulder a large portion of the blame for not getting players fired up, the players themselves must also take a look at themselves. It was as if some just wanted it be over as quickly as possible.

minors were brilliant and near got shafted by a longford ref

jj wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Kildare players are not spineless Crofter.

They were on Sunday - we all asked for them to approach it like war.. we should have got the French in..

One or two had a bit of a go alright but that's about it.

Sorry, I don't like saying that and am usually much more moderate in my view but that was shambolic stuff.

Agree with this. They were beaten before they took the field as things transpired. Saw plenty of lads tracking back etc but there was little or no effort to get a tackle in or put any pressure on the Dublin player. It was as if some were happy to hide.
Whilst management should shoulder a large portion of the blame for not getting players fired up, the players themselves must also take a look at themselves. It was as if some just wanted it be over as quickly as possible.  

Agreed, as I said in first post after full-time. Whatever the reason, be it confidence, management, belief, set-up, the majority absolutely were. They aren't usually and I wouldn't ever say they are in general but across that 70 minutes they were. We can talk about pace and power and they are big factors, but when you don't tackle players jogging in front of you, when you back off a half-paced runner, that's not giving it your all. Watch the replay, could show 100 examples of that in first half alone and that's not good enough, no matter what you are up against.

So were Monaghan spineless against them last year?

I'd have to rewatch the game. It's not about the scoreline, I knew something like that was coming, it was the effort while that scoreline was run up that suggested it for me. And there is absolutely no way most of that team gave their all, no way whatsoever.

Dublin to this to almost every team outside the top four though. Is it always the opposition's lack of bravery that's the problem?

No, as I say often the score reflects just how much better they are than teams. Do I think Dublin are 10 points better than us? Yes, easily. Do I think they are 19 points better than us when we are set-up properly, have belief and give it our all? No. Do I think the players in general are spineless? Absolutely not. But do I think they were spineless because they didn't give their all on Sunday and I base that on performance more than the scoreboard? Yes. That's what hurt me most, even in the early stages, the level of commitment and tackling across the first quarter was appalling and no gap in strength and speed can excuse some of what went on. I think there'll be a backlash against Offaly, but that won't excuse lads giving up, presuming they didn't have a chance and thinking about the qualifiers and easier games against teams they can beat.

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

So were Monaghan spineless against them last year?

I take absolutely no pleasure in pointing out the fact that most of our lads were beaten in their heads before they went out. I saw what happened in front of my own eyes and I'm afraid that is the only conclusion I could come to when reviewing the 'match'.
Thankfully I can't remember ever seeing a Kildare team do it before and I hope I never see it again.
What Dublin did or go on to do, to any other team is irrelevant to my opinion on last Sunday's game. We folded before we took pitch, pure and simple

heard bolton played with broken rib