Kildare V Dublin, Leinster S/Final

Baba that doesn't make sense to me. You're saying if we played Laois again in 05-06 we wouldn't have lost badly because there would have been a response. Well we couldn't beat Sligo, Offaly or Derry so we never really got the chance to find out. Some response.

I'm often critical of some players' performances and almost always critical of the current management but I don't believe the players in Croke Park were in any way spineless. Some were inept; some were not good enough but none was spineless

Jez we badly need a consistent free taker.. Podge can kick them, but He needs to be in line with the Goals, as He tends to kick them dead straight, as was shown Sunday when He kicked a few wide on His own side.

With Hylo now gone, and I assume Ollie, Peter and Conway out, One must worry a bit for Saturday.. Lot will depend on whether McNamee is fit or not.. I believe He is doubtful with a broken finger.

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

p.s. I still think we'll win on Saturday.

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

Crofter = spineless keyboard warrior. You're a joke ha ha ha. Never played a decent game in your life I'd say. Grow up you toooool.

shoeshine wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

Crofter = spineless keyboard warrior. You're a joke ha ha ha. Never played a decent game in your life I'd say. Grow up you toooool.

How many times does this childish argument crop up. And time to put its stupidity to bed yet again. Shoeshine do you've an opinion on Irish politics, the banking crisis, music? And if so, given your logic, does that mean you've had to have been a TD, banking executive, chart-topper?

Shoeshine I'm happy to admit I was a very average footballer (and I'm being kind). The point was not about talent it was about spine. One thing you got from me was courage and balls. The same in the rest of my life.

By the way Dermot Earley was a half decent footballer though no doubt not up to your level. He seems to agree with me (even if couched in the more polite tones you'd expect from a gentleman and president of the GPA):

" A lot of things were disappointing. I was disappointed at the fitness levels. I was disappointed that they waited until the second half to really put the fight up".

This from a player who soldiered with many of those players.

But I guess he's a tool who needs to grow up too.

He also is less than complimentary about the two defectors, probably going further than I would:

" I would argue that that's a reflection on them as well. Maybe it indicates that it didn't mean as much as you would like from a Kildare man. That's what was disappointing".

Get that man involved in some capacity in the next management team - put some manners on them.

Crofter wrote:

Shoeshine I'm happy to admit I was a very average footballer (and I'm being kind). The point was not about talent it was about spine. One thing you got from me was courage and balls. The same in the rest of my life.

By the way Dermot Earley was a half decent footballer though no doubt not up to your level. He seems to agree with me (even if couched in the more polite tones you'd expect from a gentleman and president of the GPA):

" A lot of things were disappointing. I was disappointed at the fitness levels. I was disappointed that they waited until the second half to really put the fight up".

This from a player who soldiered with many of those players.

But I guess he's a tool who needs to grow up too.

He also is less than complimentary about the two defectors, probably going further than I would:

" I would argue that that's a reflection on them as well. Maybe it indicates that it didn't mean as much as you would like from a Kildare man. That's what was disappointing".

Easy to say you that you had courage and balls Crofter, I wonder would your former team mates say that. I would go as far as to say nearly every player on that team has more of those two charachteristics than you do. They are amateurs and some of the abuse they are subjected to is disgraceful. I've been at matches where I've heard fans abusing players not knowing that the players parents are sitting 5 seats away.

Strong words there from Dermot, I've never heard him criticise a Kildare team like that even though he does it in a polite manner, he is basically calling them out and he needed to do it.

It is also an indictment of the current set up that he says the fitness levels are poor. The one area we would have hoped to be similar to the dubs would be fitness but our lads looked puffed out after 20 minutes.

If Dermot Earley is publicly saying with how things are going then we should all be even more worried than before. What a disaster of a couple of years.

Kildare looked way fitter than Laois in the 2 championship games played this year.
Then looked far inferior to Dublin in both fitness and stamina, Dublin have raised the stakes massively in this department over the last 3/4 years.
They are producing Athletes who can play football whereas Kildare and all bar the current top 4 are producing footballers trying to be athletes. There are few, if any on the current Kildare panel who could match Dublin in Strength & Stamina over 70mins / even our most promising footballer Cribben, looked like a rag doll beside McAuley.

I don't know about that, we were fairly fit under the previous manger even to a point that we were criticised for being robots not footballers. I would say we were as fit as any team that was playing and more than most for three years there.

But I agree on Dublin, their fitness, strength and stamina was levels above us. That was disappointing.
It helps when you have the best of everything available to you. Our resources are at an all time low and don't look like improving any time soon. It's repeating the same old argument but the CB need to do something or get someone who can to maximise and find new income streams.

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

I didn't say you did Crofter. I'm just pointing out that the line has been trotted out probably once a year for many a year now and if anyone had nothing to do, they could find it here. League games, championship games, they owe it to the supporters I don't care if it's a League game, gutless and so on. That was my point is all. You'll see that I acknowledged it was a bad performance.

I suppose to answer the question 'Who stood up to be counted?' you'd need a definition of what that means. Hit someone? I know the likes of Andriú Mac would always feel that at least let them know you're there. Get in a lad's face and cut the snot off him when you get a chance. Kildare doesn't have that type of player now with him, Peter Kelly, Darryl Flynn, Flano not around.

And generally, which is a point I've made a number of times but it doesn't suit people to acknowledge, the loss of real natural leaders has been crippling in the last 18 months. Dermot, Johnny, Flano, Roli and so on.

But because you're not a leader or a street fighter doesn't make you gutless surely to God. Like Tadhg Fennin was one of Kildare's best forwards of the last 15 years. But would you expect him to lay out somebody? Would you expect him to be roaring and bawling? Would you expect him to win a high ball in the middle of the field, beat six men and stick it over with his lad? No.  So he had days when he wasn't getting a sniff as Kildare were beaten off the park. Never made him spineless.

But anyway, my point was just a general one and I never referred to you or anyone because I don't have a clue who posted them. Just that it's as inevitable as the sun rising in the morning that it will come up here after a bad Kildare defeat.

And you're right Baba - the budget for the senior team and county teams in general is being cut all the time and a fraction of what the top tier teams can afford.

Probably unfair to read to much into last sunday. Dublin have powered ahead of every team now and only Kerry could match them imo. I dont think Mayo or Donegal will trouble them this year.
It's easy to look unfit in a mismatch. Every Kildare defender knew the danger of going flat out for a 50 50 ball, if he got it wrong the Dublin player was away and had men pouring forward in support.
Maybe thats defeatist but its very hard to stay positive when a team like Dublin is coming at you in such numbers.The tendency is to hold back a little and stay goal side of them. That makes you look unfit and to some people lacking heart.
You need a really good defensive set up like Donegal to handle that sort of pressure and Ryan was never capable of coming up with that. Offaly have nothing like what Dublin have to trouble us and that will be a better test of where we are.
Personally I feel we just need to see this season out and try and regain a little belief and pride. We can do that by winning a few games and then searching for a new manager. We definitely need to get Dermot involved in some way.

Agree on the money thing just finished Galvin's book and he says: 'There's an argument to be made that winning All Irelands is now about science and spend - that spend equals success'.

He goes on to say fight is just as important.

But to my mind until we match the top teams off the field the gap on it will increase. If we get our act together off it like the Dubs have, then you can judge whether the players have the heart.

At the moment, as Murof points out, you're not comparing like with like.

It's no coincidence that when McGeeney was here we spent money and the fortunes of the team improved dramatically. But since Croke Park bailed us out we have had a systematic reduction of our spending power and thus the reduction in the teams ability to compete.

Taking that bail out from Croke Park and all the financial restrictions that came with it has turned out to be a bit of a disaster as the further the team drops the less income there is to pay back the debt, meaning more cuts and an even greater decline in the team. It's vicious circle we don't look capable out getting out off.

There is no doubt in today's game you need to spend for success, the big teams will do it and thrive, the others won't and die. All Irelands are as much won off the pitch as on it and the truth is our CB wouldn't win the Tommy Murphy cup.

Westside wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Shoeshine I'm happy to admit I was a very average footballer (and I'm being kind). The point was not about talent it was about spine. One thing you got from me was courage and balls. The same in the rest of my life.

By the way Dermot Earley was a half decent footballer though no doubt not up to your level. He seems to agree with me (even if couched in the more polite tones you'd expect from a gentleman and president of the GPA):

" A lot of things were disappointing. I was disappointed at the fitness levels. I was disappointed that they waited until the second half to really put the fight up".

This from a player who soldiered with many of those players.

But I guess he's a tool who needs to grow up too.

He also is less than complimentary about the two defectors, probably going further than I would:

" I would argue that that's a reflection on them as well. Maybe it indicates that it didn't mean as much as you would like from a Kildare man. That's what was disappointing".

Easy to say you that you had courage and balls Crofter, I wonder would your former team mates say that. I would go as far as to say nearly every player on that team has more of those two charachteristics than you do. They are amateurs and some of the abuse they are subjected to is disgraceful. I've been at matches where I've heard fans abusing players not knowing that the players parents are sitting 5 seats away.

As you don't know me it's ridiculous to speculate about my character Westside. Childish. I thought this was a forum for discussing Kildare GAA and its teams. Isn't your abuse of me above the very essence of being a keyboard warrior?? What would you say to Dermot then?

Ogie wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

I didn't say you did Crofter. I'm just pointing out that the line has been trotted out probably once a year for many a year now and if anyone had nothing to do, they could find it here. League games, championship games, they owe it to the supporters I don't care if it's a League game, gutless and so on. That was my point is all. You'll see that I acknowledged it was a bad performance.

I suppose to answer the question 'Who stood up to be counted?' you'd need a definition of what that means. Hit someone? I know the likes of Andriú Mac would always feel that at least let them know you're there. Get in a lad's face and cut the snot off him when you get a chance. Kildare doesn't have that type of player now with him, Peter Kelly, Darryl Flynn, Flano not around.

And generally, which is a point I've made a number of times but it doesn't suit people to acknowledge, the loss of real natural leaders has been crippling in the last 18 months. Dermot, Johnny, Flano, Roli and so on.

But because you're not a leader or a street fighter doesn't make you gutless surely to God. Like Tadhg Fennin was one of Kildare's best forwards of the last 15 years. But would you expect him to lay out somebody? Would you expect him to be roaring and bawling? Would you expect him to win a high ball in the middle of the field, beat six men and stick it over with his lad? No.  So he had days when he wasn't getting a sniff as Kildare were beaten off the park. Never made him spineless.

But anyway, my point was just a general one and I never referred to you or anyone because I don't have a clue who posted them. Just that it's as inevitable as the sun rising in the morning that it will come up here after a bad Kildare defeat.

And you're right Baba - the budget for the senior team and county teams in general is being cut all the time and a fraction of what the top tier teams can afford.

No worries Ogie. Had enough of the personal abuse on here the last few days (not from you) so will shuffle off and leave everyone trundling along believing that lack of character and guts was not a contributor to Sunday's debacle. I participate in other forums including one with a pretty tough bunch of soccer supporters and that site is well moderated with personal abuse responded to with a ban for that poster. This site could do with similar moderation. Good luck to Kildare on Saturday. I think we will win as I have said before. Hope we do.

Bad News Baba wrote:

It's no coincidence that when McGeeney was here we spent money and the fortunes of the team improved dramatically. But since Croke Park bailed us out we have had a systematic reduction of our spending power and thus the reduction in the teams ability to compete.

Taking that bail out from Croke Park and all the financial restrictions that came with it has turned out to be a bit of a disaster as the further the team drops the less income there is to pay back the debt, meaning more cuts and an even greater decline in the team. It's vicious circle we don't look capable out getting out off.

There is no doubt in today's game you need to spend for success, the big teams will do it and thrive, the others won't and die. All Irelands are as much won off the pitch as on it and the truth is our CB wouldn't win the Tommy Murphy cup.

Important to point out here before people say he bankrupted the county that he sourced much of the funding / kit etc himself, and was heavily involved in negotiations for county sponsor. Jimmy McGuinness did the same in Donegal. It IS a money game. But he too had to take big cuts in the last couple of years.

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Ogie wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Matter of opinion I know but I think the 21-9 loss to Laois in 05 was worse. Like this might be the best Dublin team ever whereas Laois didn't even win Leinster that year. Few boys off your list were playing - for example, Dermot was cleaned. I'd also say Dublin 2013 was the same as Sunday. Doyle was playing. I worship the man but he was chasing shadows that day like everyone else.
Were Dermot Earley and John Doyle spineless?

Spot on.

It is uncanny the number of spineless, cowardly, 'worst ever' performances Kildare have produced since this forum started.

None previously from this poster Ogie. I think 40 years of watching them qualifies me somewhat to judge this. Where was the spine if it wasn't spineless.  Who REALLY stood up to be counted.. who ??

I didn't say you did Crofter. I'm just pointing out that the line has been trotted out probably once a year for many a year now and if anyone had nothing to do, they could find it here. League games, championship games, they owe it to the supporters I don't care if it's a League game, gutless and so on. That was my point is all. You'll see that I acknowledged it was a bad performance.

I suppose to answer the question 'Who stood up to be counted?' you'd need a definition of what that means. Hit someone? I know the likes of Andriú Mac would always feel that at least let them know you're there. Get in a lad's face and cut the snot off him when you get a chance. Kildare doesn't have that type of player now with him, Peter Kelly, Darryl Flynn, Flano not around.

And generally, which is a point I've made a number of times but it doesn't suit people to acknowledge, the loss of real natural leaders has been crippling in the last 18 months. Dermot, Johnny, Flano, Roli and so on.

But because you're not a leader or a street fighter doesn't make you gutless surely to God. Like Tadhg Fennin was one of Kildare's best forwards of the last 15 years. But would you expect him to lay out somebody? Would you expect him to be roaring and bawling? Would you expect him to win a high ball in the middle of the field, beat six men and stick it over with his lad? No.  So he had days when he wasn't getting a sniff as Kildare were beaten off the park. Never made him spineless.

But anyway, my point was just a general one and I never referred to you or anyone because I don't have a clue who posted them. Just that it's as inevitable as the sun rising in the morning that it will come up here after a bad Kildare defeat.

And you're right Baba - the budget for the senior team and county teams in general is being cut all the time and a fraction of what the top tier teams can afford.

No worries Ogie.  Had enough of the personal abuse on here the last few days (not from you) so will shuffle off and leave everyone trundling along believing that lack of character and guts was not a contributor to Sunday's debacle. I participate in other forums including one with a pretty tough bunch of soccer supporters and that site is well moderated with personal abuse responded to with a ban for that poster. This site could do with similar moderation. Good luck to Kildare on Saturday. I think we will win as I have said before. Hope we do.

You'd need the ould sabbatical alright at times, I take a few every year! Fingers crossed.

Crofter don't take it so seriously, if I worried about every time some one had a pop at me I'd be long gone. Just give as good as you get and stick to your guns.