Kildare v Mayo

Rex wrote:

Ohtoohtobe wrote:

Think a big problem is we're not getting the best out of our best players. I have sympathy for them all. Hylo has been proven a good man marker in the past but he was at sea with good ball coming in exactly where Moran wanted it; Doyle doesn't seem to know where he's meant to be and it led to an untypically poor performance; Paddy Brophy is stuck coming on to the ball when he's proven very effective in the past playing as a full forward with his back to goal; Niallers is trying but getting swallowed up in traffic; Feely is being asked to shoulder too much and when he misses a free it must knock his confidence.  

With all that in mind I'd swap the pieces around. Move Doyle to number five and David Hyland to centre-back and both will be in their natural positions ... we'd have to try to find a full back but the risk is worth the reward.

I'd get Niall and Paddy into the full forward line, they're natural finishers. Dan Flynn can cause havoc in there at times but it gets far too predictable when he's our only outlet, so why not play him half-forward, where he can go where he needs to to influence the game. If I was an opposition manager that would be a very big headache, bigger than trying to crowd him out on your own 21.  

I'd get Neil Flynn back in asap ask him to take all the frees, and stick to this. Leave Feely to play.

Also, sorry, I know Tommy works hard, but his skills aren't up to scratch against the best teams. I'd start Fionn Dowling against Kerry because he's a better foot passer.

Another example of the square pegs in round holes is Keith Cribbin. I love what he offers us going forward but when he's asked to tackle lads running at him in our danger zone, it's a disaster. He gave away three scoreable frees in this situation in the first half. I'm not having a pop at him, I'm just saying he should start in the forwards, or not at all. He might be very well suited to a role as an impact sub and again, that's not to run him down, the 15 you finish with is just as important as the 15 you start with.

Bad as this run of results is, we're still in a better position than in the mid noughties because back then we had a generation gap where there just wasn't the talent. We have some good players now, we're just not getting the best out of them, so it's time for a rethink on how we play.

Good assessment,  but when you implement those changes you are moving half the team to new positions. That can't be a good reflection on management. I would add Conway to another player who is out of position. He will never be a half forward or any forward. He starts at centre back or no where.

Frees are a major issue, it's either Neil Flynn or Eanna O'Connor. One of them starts. I don't care if they are stinking the place out in open play.  If they kick 8.5/10 frees it will be worth it. Allow Feely to concentrate on doing what he does best.

I'd also bring James Murray straight into that defence. His aggression and willingness to do what has to be done is badly missing.

So that's nearly a 2/3rds of the team changed. Thats without deciding on the full back line who might as well have been standing with me watching on Sunday.

More questions than answers.

Murray has only training twice with Kildare up to last Thursday night . Who does cian o neill drop from team for Murray to start

After that defensive display on Sunday any of them. I'll start with Cribbin. He's not a defender, never had been. Can't tackle and is poor positionally.

Kevin Flynn started his first game on Sunday. He was head and shoulders above the rest of the defence as he was when he came on in Donegal. You won't find this out on the training pitch gone. Nothing to lose.

Off the top of my head.

Donellan
Kelly Hyland ( until a proper full back is found ) O'Grady
Doyle
Flynn Murray O'Donoghue
Feely P.Cribbin
D.Flynn O'Connor/N.Flynn
Kelly Brophy McCormack

Kelly and O'Connor/N.Flynn could swap

Undoubtedly our issue is our defense. Major work needed on this. To me the players / management are overthinking things - trying to play systems all the time and when they break down the team falls apart and we cough up so many soft scores.
The starting point should be a much more solid defense with an emphasis on tackling much harder. This thing of putting an arm out is just ridiculous. The game plan has been to pick athletes who can run hard with the ball at the opposition. I know now adays positions are pretty fluid but there is no way that we should be all swarming forward at times. Got to hold the defense alot better.
I agree that K. Cribben isn't a strong defender but is a strong ball carrier. I'd put him in the free role sitting around the half back line to bring the ball up more. This would allow Murray / Doyle to hold positions better around the middle of the pitch. I'd love to see a huge emphasis on defense for the next two games - restrict the opposition to c.12 scores. We've been conceding way too much. I'd go with the following team.

Donellan
Kelly Hyland O'Grady
Flynn Murray Doyle
K. Cribben

Feely P.Cribben

D.Flynn Kelly Brophy
N Flynn O'Connor

On a side note - anyone notice that Doyle takes his gum shield out at every dead ball - no wonder he lost it in the previous game. He's constantly holding it in his hand. Seems like such a wasted effort taking it in and out.

Is Luke flynn injured?

For me looking at the teamsheet, there's a bit of a feel of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. There is a certain tactical and positional things I would look at with this team, but for me, the big issue is that they can't cope in pressure situations and don't have the hardness that Mayo and Dublin have.

Go back through the games from the last nine months... Armagh, Dublin in the league, Monaghan, Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo - they were in a good position at different times in all those games. When the pressure really came on and they had to dig in, I'm sorry - but they lost their heads and caved.

What's really galling is that it conforms to all the sterotypical perceptions of Kildare teams over the years. All style, no substance. Overhyped. Soft. Can't dig in when the going gets tough.

Until they sort that out, I don't care who plays where, they are not going to be a top team. And it's better if we're straight up with them rather than giving them guff about "long-term learning processes". The lessons should already have been learned. They're in their mid-twenties, not in their mid-teens.

The GAA version of "It's only Spurs lads" is "It's only Kildare lads". I have no doubt that's the general gist of the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo team talks.

fone wrote:

Is Luke flynn injured?

Not sure.. but I believe Mickey Kelly dropped off the panel himself again.

O'Neill had been trying to get Kelly in the squad for a while. That worked out well.

He could do worse than show them second half of 2000 Leinster final. Six points down at half time, being played off the pitch and in serious danger of a historic mauling. Came back out in the second half and went to war. But then the leaders on that team - Ryan, Lynch, McCreery, Doyle etc - led by their actions rather than merely posing as leaders.

SeamusMurphy wrote:

fone wrote:

Is Luke flynn injured?

Not sure.. but I believe Mickey Kelly dropped off the panel himself again.

Kelly has left panel

So has Luke Flynn

Why ?

jim wrote:

So has Luke Flynn

Good job we don’t need a full back.

Don’t understand why he wasn’t tried there.

Lads jumping off the panel after a few months. I'd question their attitude and desire to actually play for Kildare.  Far better players have put the time in before getting a starting place, why do these lads think they should automatically get a spot.  You're supposed to earn the right, it won't be given to you.

Another sign pointing to the malaise that lads in the squad are entitled and won't do what is necessary.

Heard he missed a few sessions and said he needed a break. But nothing confirmed

Luke flynn was not named in Panel for Donegal or mayo games

Rex wrote:

Lads jumping off the panel after a few months. I'd question their attitude and desire to actually play for Kildare.  Far better players have put the time in before getting a starting place, why do these lads think they should automatically get a spot.  You're supposed to earn the right, it won't be given to you.

Another sign pointing to the malaise that lads in the squad are entitled and won't do what is necessary.

Give him a league debut in midfield on Fenton was an assured move.. real confidence builder that one.. don't blame the chap..
why wasn't he tried at full back ?

I hope fionn starts v Kerry in midfield I really do.

Ah Seamus I disagree completely - Surely starting him in the middle v Dublin is a huge vote of confidence - It didn't go well for him that day or against Monaghan and was rightly replaced in my opinion but hes young. Surely he would have been chomping at the bit to win back a place?

If he got the hump and left the panel because of this then it does highlight commitment issues. You are playing Div 1 football for god sake - Not junior b on a Wednesday night !! Even the golden boys in Dublin need to wait their turn sometimes.

Disappointing if that's the reason, if its more personal than that then fair enough.

As for Fionn midfield well I have never rated him at intercounty level - No easy answer here as we do need mobility beside Feely and Fionn would tick some of those boxes. A more mobile partner is needed for Feely. Not sure who that is at the moment - Would have hoped that would be worked on my management.

SeamusMurphy wrote:

Rex wrote:

Lads jumping off the panel after a few months. I'd question their attitude and desire to actually play for Kildare.  Far better players have put the time in before getting a starting place, why do these lads think they should automatically get a spot.  You're supposed to earn the right, it won't be given to you.

Another sign pointing to the malaise that lads in the squad are entitled and won't do what is necessary.

Give him a league debut in midfield on Fenton was an assured move.. real confidence builder that one.. don't blame the chap..
why wasn't he tried at full back ?

I hope fionn starts v Kerry in midfield I really do.

I don't blame the chap.....ffs Seamus I'm surprised at that from a Monastrevin man. Senior football is tough the vast majority of the time. I'd be very disappointed in Mick Kelly too. I thought he was made of stronger stuff than that. You got to work hard to get to where you want to get to in life. Its not easy . As they say it's not the size of the dog in the fight its the size of the fight in the dog

I'm not sure of the reasons the chap left the panel.. and I take your points. But why not a run out at full back where we're really struggling and Lukes regular club position.
putting a debutant on Fenton was crazy.

I'm not sure of the reasons jim tbh.

Yes we don't know the circumstances so would only be speculating.

But if It is because of lack of game time, then that is a sign of underlying issues. Hopefully not prevalent throughout the remaining members of the squad.

Wonder will anyone else be called up

Highball wrote:

Yes we don't know the circumstances so would only be speculating.

But if It is because of lack of game time, then that is a sign of underlying issues. Hopefully not prevalent throughout the remaining members of the squad.

Wonder will anyone else be called up

the month of April might see additional people in Panel

In the past the under 21s would be the main source for bringing players into the panel at this time of year. With the under 20's competition not starting until the end of May, I can't see anyone else being brought in from that squad so I'm not sure where new players are going to come from.

You can't underestimate how massive a jump it is from club level to playing at division one level. Easier to experiment in division three like we did two years ago and break players in. Kevin Flynn has done really well but even at that he has been turned over and out-muscled on a few occasions. Players need to stick at it to get to that level. People complain about the same 'names' being picked all the time but how about the fact that these players commit where others can't/won't.

And does anyone think that marking a fired-up Bernard Brogan would have been that much easier than Fenton. Flynn had a nightmare at full-back 2 years ago against Louth in the O'Byrne Cup, wouldn't commit last year and has walked after three months this season. Is this who you build your team around. Maybe if he stuck around he might have got another chance there but now we'll never know.

Playing inter County football is like a full time job now most players they might not say it but are really thinking long and hard do I want to put my life on hold for the next 10 years for this and what do you get in return is very little its coming down the line if we like it or not until drastic changes are made

Extracted comments below from this website after Kildare defeat in 2017 (not my words but I saved them for future reference)


"Fear - of opposition, of Croke Park, of making a mistake
Lack of Courage
Lack of Intelligence (high balls into small man ffs)
Lack of talent / basic skills
Lack of leadership / leaders
Lack of understanding of game plan (I can't believe that was the planned approach to "transitioning")
Lack of practice with the game plan (15 on 15 in NFL)
Lack of talent
Lack of confidence
Lack of fitness / wrong type of fitness -- gym monkeys with no pace
Players living off reputation."

Unfortunately, most of comments still apply to 2018 Team

was watching a game last night and the analysis came on and they asked what was the difference between the two teams, and the answer was 'desire' a desire to get to the ball first, a desire to get a score, a desire to get a block in etc etc etc. (obviously teams like Dublin are way ahead)
apart from the early championship games last year I cant see the real desire and hunger, count how many times a Kildare player will 'shadow' a player and not actually put a proper hand in that's the 1st thing coaches like davy fitz etc. does to get that extra 20% out of a team