Kildare v Tyrone

The thing is they didn't blow up or choke, a mistake was made for the 2nd goal and Tyrone were good enough to take full advantage of it. Several players could and should have done better for the final goal but it's just to easy to say the team choked from the far side of the world. If the whistle had gone when we had the line ball we'd all be lauding them for how they controlled the previous 10 mins instead of running them down, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Choking for me is when your in the game with 10/15 mins to go and you panic and stop doing the things that put you in that good position, which we have certainly done. There simply wasn't time for that yesterday and for sure we were far to nice in that last play

lillyboy wrote:

The thing is they didn't blow up or choke, a mistake was made for the 2nd goal and Tyrone were good enough to take  full advantage of it. Several players could and should have done better for the final goal but it's just to easy to say the team choked from the far side of the world. If the whistle had gone when we had the line ball we'd all be lauding them for how they controlled the previous 10 mins instead of running them down, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Choking for me is when your in the game with 10/15 mins to go and you panic and stop doing the things that put you in that good position, which we have certainly done. There simply wasn't time for that yesterday and for sure we were far to nice in that last play

It was a choke. Whether the choke was over a 2 minute time frame or a 15 minute time frame. It was a choke.

They had a maximum of 120 seconds to run down the clock. I could think of 10-15 different ways of doing this.

Also people bringing up Tommy being in Brazil or the other side of the world is utterly pathetic, how that lessens his opinion is beyond me.

that's your opinion and your 100% entitled to have it

If my aunt had balls... You can say what you will about it, but they froze clearly and didn't have the footballing intelligence to slow the game down, to foul, to start a row, whatever, and by not doing that and by freezing up and allowing Tyrone in not once but twice, it is choking in my view.

For those who can bare it again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6R4_fEXaFI&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

Talk about headless, just total panic from everyone, everywhere with no leadership. Granted, Donnelly got away with 14 steps but when clean through, did no one think of hauling him down, starting a row, wasting another 90 seconds and forcing them to tap over a close free?

Walter White wrote:

Crofter wrote:

Is this your input from Brazil TK or were you there or watching on TV? If this is based on KFM commentary or worse, twitter updates, then it's hard to give it much credibility. The defence had 4 relative newcomers to inter county, three of whom hadn't started for the seniors until two months ago. If their two more senior colleagues had shaken off their early season lethargy we would have been well out the gate. Gutting defeat but comments (not yours) that this was worse than Cork or Dublin hammerings are beyond comprehension.

I think Tommy could be on the moon and his comments would hold a lot of weight.
If we're being honest it's not the first time we've been in a wining position and failed to close out the game, this time it just happens to be with different personnel but the outcome is just the same.

We can't always put this down to our rookies. Tyrone had as many if not more inexperienced players on the pitch.

Not true - they had 8 of last july's starters to our 5

I don't think you can use last July as a measure Crofter. Moolick, Hurley, Gary White all played championship football before for Kildare but didn't start last July. Mulhall and McNally played in a Junior All Ireland final for Kildare also.

As far as the amount of experience goes I would imagine both teams were very similar at the weekend.

So the excuse doesn't wash. If you want to wrap some of the Kildare players in cotton wool and tell them it will all be OK as they were or are inexperienced. By all means do. I'm not buying into it.

TommyKeegan wrote:

Listened on radio, and must say am still annoyed. In terms of the bigger picture and all these new faces we are using as an excuse, being in Division One is vital and it's my honest belief we'll go down now, that game will be pinpointed as how survival got away and next year we'll be back playing Laois and Cavan and Roscommon instead of Dublin and Mayo and Cork. In terms of the actual game, people saying the defence is young and whatever else, that's a fine excuse if a guy is just fleeced by an old hand or whatever else, but there is absolutely no excuse for blowing up like that at the finish. If an under-14 team did it you'd have serious words and you don't need to have been a four time All Star to know that in such a situation you slow the game down, you foul, take the black card or yellow card late on, start a pushing match, whatever it takes to slow down the momentum of the opposition. That should have been done before the first goal, not doing it twice though... Well, they say not learning from your mistakes is a sign of a certain unwanted trait! (Again, I mean that in terms of footballing intelligence, not anything else.) If you told me before the game we'd only lose by one I'd say great effort, but things evolve and you've to base results on the situations that arise. We choked because of complete footballing thickness and it could cost us for several seasons to come in terms of our footballing development as I think Division One football year in, year out for the next three or four seasons given the age profile is as important as anything we do over the next few summers.

Always respect your opinions Tommy but that's an awful lot to conclude from listening to commentary on radio. KFM must have been in an ad break when we were scoring that 1-21 :-)

Watched incidents at end and some other highlights on TG4 too.

Walter White wrote:

I don't think you can use last July as a measure Crofter. Moolick, Hurley, Gary White all played championship football before for Kildare but didn't start last July. Mulhall and McNally played in a Junior All Ireland final for Kildare also.

As far as the amount of experience goes I would imagine both teams were very similar at the weekend.

So the excuse doesn't wash. If you want to wrap some of the Kildare players in cotton wool and tell them it will all be OK as they were or are inexperienced. By all means do. I'm not buying into it.

Similarly with Niall Morgan and Conor McAliskey who didn't start for Tyrone that day. How many of Tyrone's team were playing under 21 last year? Look, I'm not saying we should ignore the last minute or wrap anyone up in cotton wool, but it's just plain ridiculous to completely ignore the previous 69 minutes as well. For the record I believe we'll be well between by the DUbs on Saturday - I'm not completely divorced from reality. There was a lot of good an still plenty of bad about our display yesterday - it's not as black an white nor as bleak as you are painting it WW.

To call that a choke is a ridiculous assertion and with no foundation, when has winning a league game in March ever been a mental barrier for Kildare, it was the league FFS, where you want to see performances, any coach will tell you that's way more important than results. Anyone who denies Kildare didn't perform yesterday is in either cloud cuckoo land or has their own little narrative/agenda. Top scorers in the country after 3 rounds and that's after playing 3 of the Top 6 teams in the country and we will play the top team on Saturday. No doubt if we win don't that game people will be calling for Jason Ryan's head.

Perspective is everything!

It wasnt a Game We were supposed to be within an asses roar of Tyrone.. We get beaten by a very fortunate or unfortunate goal at the end.. Its not the end of the World.. Personally I believe we will beat Westmeath and Kerry at Home, and while it will be extremely difficult v Derry away, I think we can beat them... Unlike some Folk Im really looking forward to Croker on Saturday, and if we can tighten up at the back, who knows.

Top scorers, and second worst defence in the country too with Dublin next up! Yes, it was only the league but the league has become an important place across the last decade and being in Division One is essential to our growth and level of performances, thus you could see what it meant to the players at the end as they knew the importance of winning from that position, getting one over on Tyrone after last year and picking up any points that are available in a tough schedule.

In fact I've made this point about the Irish rugby team after the New Zealand loss. Playing well for almost the entire game doesn't excuse losing it, in fact it only makes it worse because you've to finish what you started and you've to get the reward for your performance. Yesterday was a big loss in terms of our chances of survival in a division we really need to remain in.

One last quote that comes to mind when looking at yesterday and it's from Will Greenwood and to do with what Clive Woodward called TCUP or Think Clearly Under Pressure. “It is the ability to control aggression, to know when to push the referee, when to slow the ball down or have your prop fake an ankle injury. It is a catch-all phrase that sums up a player’s ability to stay cool and do the right thing. In short, it is knowing how to win. If a player forgets it, he’s not just letting himself down, he’s letting his team down… To win at the highest levels you must be able to think clearly under pressure. If you cannot, you let your team down and that, in team sport, is the ultimate faux pas.” League or not, that's worth remembering.

Dinny Breen wrote:

To call that a choke is a ridiculous assertion and with no foundation, when has winning a league game in March ever been a mental barrier for Kildare, it was the league FFS, where you want to see performances, any coach will tell you that's way more important than results. Anyone who denies Kildare didn't perform yesterday is in either cloud cuckoo land or has their own little narrative/agenda. Top scorers in the country after 3 rounds and that's after playing 3 of the Top 6 teams in the country and we will play the top team on Saturday. No doubt if we win don't that game people will be calling for Jason Ryan's head.

Perspective is everything!

I think we all accept that Kildare performed, Dinny. But not to the end - that's the point - and that's what cost us the points. Manager and players seemed to think the match was over and we'd won. It wasn't and we didn't!

That said, Saturday night will tell a lot more about the relative merits of the 69 minutes and the one minute.

I wouldn't be taking Kerry for granted if they, too, are fighting for survival.
In fact, I wouldn't take any team for granted, including Westmeath if, as seems possible, they're looking for something to break their duck on the last day..

My own best hopes, though, would be for wins against Derry (oddly enough) and Westmeath.
Fingers crossed and, of course, we'll still all be there, giving it our all.

Tommy if you want to reference the England World Cup team of 03 then you should remember how they blew a grand slam in each of the years before that by conceding late scores. They clearly learnt the lesson the hard way and went on to become a great team.
We will learn that lesson too and on yesterdays performance we can become a very good team when we get all our players fit. No reason in my opinion that we cant win 2 more games out of 4.
Remember the games against Tyrone last year in Newbridge and particularly the lethargic perfomances. We have come a long way and are going the right way.

Maybe we will go the right way, but not sure you can make that statement yet, given we are in a worse position this year than last in terms of results and survival chances.

TommyKeegan wrote:

Top scorers, and second worst defence in the country too with Dublin next up! Yes, it was only the league but the league has become an important place across the last decade and being in Division One is essential to our growth and level of performances, thus you could see what it meant to the players at the end as they knew the importance of winning from that position, getting one over on Tyrone after last year and picking up any points that are available in a tough schedule.

In fact I've made this point about the Irish rugby team after the New Zealand loss. Playing well for almost the entire game doesn't excuse losing it, in fact it only makes it worse because you've to finish what you started and you've to get the reward for your performance. Yesterday was a big loss in terms of our chances of survival in a division we really need to remain in.

One last quote that comes to mind when looking at yesterday and it's from Will Greenwood and to do with what Clive Woodward called TCUP or Think Clearly Under Pressure. “It is the ability to control aggression, to know when to push the referee, when to slow the ball down or have your prop fake an ankle injury. It is a catch-all phrase that sums up a player’s ability to stay cool and do the right thing. In short, it is knowing how to win. If a player forgets it, he’s not just letting himself down, he’s letting his team down… To win at the highest levels you must be able to think clearly under pressure. If you cannot, you let your team down and that, in team sport, is the ultimate faux pas.” League or not, that's worth remembering.

Not every team can be the winner, Tyrone are further down the road in their development than Kildare, people talk about Tyrone's young players but the difference is they are coming into a team where the experienced players have won All-Irelands and Ulster titles, where the manager has won 3 AIs at senior level. Their process is clearly defined as is their culture. This was most evident in the last 2 minutes where Tyrone still played through to the end, that doesn't happen 3 months into a new managers tenure. If you look at our biggest failing under McGeeney it was an inability to put up big scores against the big teams on a consistent basis, no one can argue that our attack hasn't shown signs of improvement and Saturday will be another test of this, Dublin aren't firing yet, among the lowest scorers in the Division so we have a chance, they don't respect us and why should they so hopefully we can catch them cold.

As for the England reference that was a team that suffered a lot of heartache, Wales, Ireland and Scotland denied them a grand slam 3 years in a row. They also had to contend with a Tour from Hell in 98, so their process included a lot of experience to build on. They would have learned from a defeat like yesterday and added it to their learning curve.

No one is denying as a team they panicked but perspective is everything, only 3 weeks earlier we were close to doing the same to Cork, how would have Cork reacted if there was another minute to play?

3 kildare players including the biggest of them all Shane Connolly went for that last deflected high ball for the goal. The single tyrone player from a standing start beat them all to it. All 3 kildare players are guilty. However...it was a mistake..a lapse in concentration..and the good teams punish you for those.
All 3 players had positives from yesterday too that enabled Kildare to get to 1-21 in the first place.

Very good points that we cant write off the previous 69 minutes. We SHOULD learn more from that defeat and use it to drive us onto the level Tyrone operate at. You know yourself...if we had won yesterday half the county would have us favourites for the All-Ireland.

Sam1928 wrote:

You know yourself...if we had won yesterday half the county would have us favourites for the All-Ireland.

Never a truer word Sam   

Paul Cribben just announced on twitter that he's leaving Kildare panel for personal reasons.
Hoping his account has been hacked and it's not true.

Tweet has since been removed : hack job I presume - PHEW

The tweet is gone now. Hopefully just someone having a joke!

flourman wrote:

Paul Cribben just announced on twitter that he's leaving Kildare panel for personal reasons.
Hoping his account has been hacked and it's not true.

The tweet is gone now. Hopefully just someone having a joke!

That tweet has been deleted already it seems, hopefully no truth behind it anyways.

Have to say I was a sick as the next lad leaving yesterday and still a bit gutted. However looking at it a day on there were many positives against the last two minutes.
Brophy, Murnaghan, Hurley, Mulhall, Moolick, OGrady. The feilding from Hurley was top class. Some players coming out of injury will have there work cut out to get a starting spot in the team which is always a good thing. Of them there are 3 I'd put in and could see them improving us further. Going into Newbridge yesterday I was hopeful of a result but would have settled for a good performance. That was a good Tyrone team touted by many as real challengers to the Dubs this year. Personally I don't think they are and as I pointed out before the game they are not the best defensively like us they are trying to improve on last year but they'll be looking at that game saying theres a lot to work on and they were damn lucky.
The Dubs next dos'nt get tougher than that. Division one is great lets hope we can stay there, we are certainly not out of our depth in footballing ability.

TCUP, now that's a good one considering the reaction after losing a league game by a point on the 2nd March. Have you ever considered living by those quotes Tommy or do they just apply to others.

By the way did you get to look at all the game or just the clips that suits your point of view ??