Kildare v Tyrone

Interesting to see Seo Spoirt on tg4 the other night with Bolton. He mentioned Lyons, Kelly and Eoin Doyle as our hardest markers, considering they are all out injured I would be hoping that they will have a big hand in reducing the massive scores we are currently conceding. Going the other way we seem to be going the right way with a number of scorers and not being overly reliant on the likes of the great man Johnny over the last few years

Gutting today that was. You couldnt have written that. Felt sorry for the lads, but in particular Sean Hurley, he had a great game, but that line ball cost us. If they didn't get the second goal there was no way a third would have gone in either! Huge lesson to be learnt. However it was a really decent solid performance by the lads. From word go they tore into tyrone, something I was not really expecting! Well not to the level that they did! Tyrone are very beatable, which offers us more hope and we certainly owned the game for at least 80 % of it! Throughout there were some bad mistakes, again when tyrone ran through, they found it easy to penetrate the defence and could have had a few more goals than they took. This must be addressed, as it was the same as in other games this year! Nonetheless there was a more solid job done today from the backs than a few weeks ago, but it can definitely improve even further. Peter Kelly coming back will be crucial. All in all the lads played very well, Darroch flying and Tomas O'Connor played well too, mopping up most of the ball that came his way. Brophy once again, he had a tough battle but still managed some excellent scores outlining how much he brings to the team. Tommy Moo did very well, his distribution of the ball was excellent.
Next week another step up from today will be needed. We havent beaten dublin in croker since jaysus, the leinster in 2000 (as far as i can recall) and national league was 1995. Hopefully we can raise our game completely again, as it will be such a huge test.
On another note its great to see Dan Flynn coming back home. He will be a huge addition!!
Just to conclude, there is a new purpose about this kildare team, and yes it is early days and a work in progress, but its exciting!! Up Kildare Onwards and upwards lads....................

Just can't believe the negativity here and I'm far from an optimist usually.
Lads we were short 10-15 potential starters, against one of the best teams in the country, and we played them off the pitch.
I expected us to lose by 6-10 points and wouldn't have lost the head if we did. When you look at the age profile of Kildare's better players, it's clear to any rational individual that we will have a very good side in about two years' time.
At the moment, players to come back into contention for a start that didn't start yesterday include:
Peter Kelly
Ollie Lyons
Eoin Doyle
John Byrne
David Hyland
Emmet Bolton
Dan Flynn
Niall Kelly
John Doyle
Eamonn Callaghan
Alan Smith

Already this season, Sean Hurley and Paul Cribbin and Paddy Brophy are starting to deliver on their potential. Darroch Mulhall and Kevin Murnaghan have grabbed their opportunities, and Mick O'Grady is now another realistic option.
Tommy Moolick is playing better than any of us expected and fair play to him.

We have as promising a squad of developing players as we've had since the early 90s. We are higher in the league than 27 counties with a chance to have another crack at the All-Ireland champions looming. We are Leinster minor and U21 champions.

If you think this is a time to be downbeat about Kildare football, then I'm sorry, but you truly don't have the faintest clue what the dark days were really like.

To be honest that defeat is / was harder to take than any of the hammerings dished out by Dublin or Cork over the last two years.

The game was there to be won and 60 seconds of madness undid 69 minutes of top quality football during which we led on the scoreboard and dominated from the off.

The usual problems we've come to expect over the last while were evident again today though. At times the kickouts and movement was poor, 1-2 of Tyrone's first half tally came from them cleanly winning ball in the middle and running right through the middle at us.

That said though Hurley and Moolick won a serious amount of ball, while Chalky, Flats and McNally broke and gathered plenty of breaks. We gave them enough trouble in midfield to force Morgan to put four kickouts straight out over the sideline as he had a lack of options to aim for in the middle. That's definitely one of the positives we should take from this.

The severity of the injury list was certainly evident when it came to the bench and the subs made, with Kelly, Lyons and Doyle all out we're left top heavy on forwards and that little bit of experience at the back needed to help see out games. Any of those three back over the next week or two should improve us as both McGrillen and Foley have looked off the pace for a few games now, seemed to be a yard or two behined their men a couple of times today. Which is a bit strange as pace isn't exactly something we're lacking in other areas at the moment.

Hard to single out lads who played well but Brophy, Hurley and Moolick all really stood out at various times.

It's a massive kick in the ball to lose any game that way, hopefully though, what is for the most part a pretty inexperienced team can learn enough from it to never let it happen again. Ideally you'd want a winnable game next time out to help put it behind you but the Dubs in their own backyard isn't exactly the type of game we would have been overly optimistic about a few weeks ago.

Both Kerry and Westmeath are still pointless and yet to visit Newbridge. Win both of those and we'll stay up, I think most of us would have been happy with that at the start of the campaign.

Always said you cannot teach footballing intelligence and since I've been around we've never been great on it. Sweet Jesus, as regards today, five points up in injury time, anyone hear of a foul? Down we go, that was it, and deservedly so. PS who is backs coach? We have the worst defence in country and after today, not personal but in terms of football, I think the thickest/stupidest/whatever you want. I mean how bad do you've to be upstairs. Thick, thick, thick.

TK we're down seven defenders, most of them experienced. Take a deep breath.

TommyKeegan wrote:

Always said you cannot teach footballing intelligence and since I've been around we've never been great on it. Sweet Jesus, as regards today, five points up in injury time, anyone hear of a foul? Down we go, that was it, and deservedly so. PS who is backs coach? We have the worst defence in country and after today, not personal but in terms of football, I think the thickest/stupidest/whatever you want. I mean how bad do you've to be upstairs. Thick, thick, thick.

Is this your input from Brazil TK or were you there or watching on TV? If this is based on KFM commentary or worse, twitter updates, then it's hard to give it much credibility. The defence had 4 relative newcomers to inter county, three of whom hadn't started for the seniors until two months ago. If their two more senior colleagues had shaken off their early season lethargy we would have been well out the gate. Gutting defeat but comments (not yours) that this was worse than Cork or Dublin hammerings are beyond comprehension.

As that ball rolled over the side line in the 69th min I was about to head for the exit a happy man, what happened in the next 90 seconds was sickening but that is the nature of sport. Having watched it again there was very little anyone could have done to prevent their 2nd goal once the line ball was kicked away. The 3rd and killer goal could and should have been prevented, that said it was freakish in nature. I was delighted with the way we played and even about how we were closing out the game until it all came unstuck, we were soaking it up and hitting them on the break but probably should have had another couple of points on the board. The subs coming in looked like running down the clock and getting fresh legs in, we ended up with O Neill and Flynn at midfield two of our more experienced players. If anything we were slow in getting fresh legs into such a high tempo game  but taking O'Connor off was strange unless he was injured. Strange that the player who had the best chance of preventing the 3rd goal fell to Flynn who could have taken him down and killed the game. All ifs and's and maybe's but so much better than last year.

O'Connor had a mighty game, one of his best ever for Kildare. The decision to substitute him was a strange one but Fogarty hardly weakened the team. He set up a few scores towards the end including one for Hurley (I think) when he went up and made a great catch for a ball that he had no right to win. The substitution wasn't the winning and losing of the game.

The one minor consolation we can take from the finish to yesterday's game is that it was only the league in early March. It would be a damn sight worse if something like that happened in mid July. You would hope now that if we are in the same position in a big match in the summer that the players will have learned from the negative experience of yesterday and they will be able to close the game out in the final minutes.

The same old excuses of inexperience are being flogged in several posts above. I'll say it again - you don't need to be playing football for forty years to have experience and nous. Even the "inexperienced" players on the team have played at the highest level in underage competitions and many of them have shown the exact same inability to deal with situations cooly. We saw it last year in the under-21 semi final and on several other occasions. The fact is that our defence is porous and that a number of experienced players there are slow - now whether that's down to poor players or lack of cop-on is debatable but it's a fact and it isn't just true of this game, it's been obvious right through the O'Byrne cup campaign, too. We've escaped by the skins of of our teeth on several occasions - including two yesterday during the second half when the defence parted like the waters in front of Moses. Freakish or not, the last goal should never have been an option for Tyrone if the Kildare defence was tight - mentally and physically - and if the bench hadn't been pouring onto the pitch like rush hour on the Naas Road.
This game was thrown away - on the pitch and by the manager - the blame lies equally on both sides of the line. Inexperience and a lack of common sense are two different things and we saw (yet again) the latter running riot at St Conleth's yesterday.
Twenty-four hours later, I still feel the players and the manager need a good arse-kicking for an inept display. Sixty-nine minutes is not the duration of a match and we should have learned that by now. If they don't learn from this, they'll never learn from anything.

Hmm the way I see it panning out......
W'Meath 0 points, can't see them winning anything
Kerry 4 points with wins over Tyrone (H) & W'Meath (A) losses to Kildare (A) & Cork (H)
Derry 5 points loosing remaining matches to Cork (A), Dublin (H), Kildare (A) & Mayo (A)
Mayo 6 points with wins over W'Meath (A) & Derry (A), loosing to Cork (H) & Dublin (A)
Kildare 8 points with wins over W'Meath (H), Kerry (H) & Derry (A) loosing to Dublin (A)

I'll get my coat...............

.

Crofter wrote:

Is this your input from Brazil TK or were you there or watching on TV? If this is based on KFM commentary or worse, twitter updates, then it's hard to give it much credibility. The defence had 4 relative newcomers to inter county, three of whom hadn't started for the seniors until two months ago. If their two more senior colleagues had shaken off their early season lethargy we would have been well out the gate. Gutting defeat but comments (not yours) that this was worse than Cork or Dublin hammerings are beyond comprehension.

I think Tommy could be on the moon and his comments would hold a lot of weight.
If we're being honest it's not the first time we've been in a wining position and failed to close out the game, this time it just happens to be with different personnel but the outcome is just the same.

We can't always put this down to our rookies. Tyrone had as many if not more inexperienced players on the pitch.

Am I right in sensing - even though there's the usual back and forth/ personality disagreements/ good solid arguments - that there's a definite sense of sorrow, as much as anger, on the forum in the past twenty-four hours. A sense of disbelief ....I can't even put my finger on the right word? Shell-shock maybe?

tomoneillandhissisteranne wrote:

Am I right in sensing - even though there's the usual back and forth/ personality disagreements/ good solid arguments - that there's a definite sense of sorrow, as much as anger, on the forum in the past twenty-four hours. A sense of disbelief ....I can't even put my finger on the right word? Shell-shock maybe?

Sorrow would be too strong a word. I'd say disbelief is the nail on the head.

Before yesterday I would have thought it virtually impossible to throw a 5 point lead in a minute.

If nothing else we've discovered a new way of losing a game.

Walter White wrote:

If nothing else we've discovered a new way of losing a game.

Always the silver lining, Walter !   

Very positive about our forward play overall. We did miss 2 or 3 very easy chances for points. However Tyrone blasted over 2 or 3 shots that could have been goals.

Tyrone are dogged. Always have been, always will be...they clung onto our shirt tails and got their rewards in the end. Would a Kildare team ever score 2 goals in a minute like that away from home to win a game? I dunno.

Very impressed by our young players. Theres a lot to be excited about and we have good strong players to return from injury.

The Kerry game at home is the one that decides if we stay up or not I think.

Obviously the defence is a big big issue and I would include the goalkeeper in that as well. I was pissed off yesterday but can see some good positives today. Hurley was brilliant yesterday. Some flashes of skill. If any of the marquee county players did that you wouldnt hear the end of it.

Too much nonsense about history, mental frailties and inexperience. As someone said if Hurley had not attempted that backpass its unlikely we would have lost. He gave an exhibition of fielding and was obviously just trying to run down the clock. Imagine how he feels today.
To say that this is typical of Kildare teams is ridiculous, I can't recall us ever conceding 2 goals in injury time before, maybe others can. However I can recall us conceding 3 points to Meath in 98 late in the game and coming back to score 1-2 and win a Leinster title.
I can recall us being 9 down to Wicklow at half time, 3 down with a minute to go and still scoring 1-2 to win. And I certainly can recall us being 6 down to Dublin in 00 and scoring 2 goals in the first minute of the 2nd half to win another Leinster title.
So a little more perspective and restraint please.
ps Sean Cavanagh was very generous to Kildare after the game yesterday, saying they seemed to have thrown of the McGeeney shackles and were playing with great skill and flair.
For what its worth he added that we did not deserve to lose and he felt sorry for the players!

events like yesterday are great when your team are doing it but terrible to on the receiving end of so it's understandable that everyone feel upset over the ending. inexperience isn't an excuse or even a reason why the last goal went in. We'l know next weekend if the 1st 69 mins were a flash in the pan or if the team are capable of competing with the top sides. I'd certainly be more hopeful after yesterday that we can

In the past we could defend and couldnt score, now I think its the opposite, maybe its the Black Card rule.. Im not picking here, but Hugh had another stinker, and why oh why is O Grady, Foley, in the Oppositions full forward line. Conway was making all sorts of forward runs also, and He marking Ronan O Neill FGS.. On the positives, Moo, Mulhall, Paddy and McNally continue to improve, We should have won, no doubts, and yes we should have being cynical, but we did a lot better than most expected.
One more thing.. Someone needs to play off the shoulder of Tomas all the time and not be leaving him isolated.. Hes a great Man to win Ball, and will always look for a Man outside.

Easy to feel sorry when you off down the M7 with two points given to you.

We are a few hours on now from yesterday and although it seems unbelievable we lost that game, there are a lot of positives. Forward play was excellent. Ironically for years we have hoped for lads to be able to kick it over the bar and when we get some we can't defend for peanuts.
The way we moved the ball, accurately and purposefully. Not going back just to retain possession but to move the point of attack was impressive.  
The direct running was very good, our players are beginning to see the joy of the black card in that defenders are terrified to pull and drag. It allows heading for goal a lot easier.
Hurley was excellent. His mistake at the end was a bad one but it should not hide the dominance he put in over his marker.
Tomas was unmarkable when the ball was put in right. He is just a beast of a player when he gets on it. He works so hard and gives everything he has it was no wonder he got a standing ovation yesterday.
The two big finds of the year though are O'Grady and Murnaghan. Both were excellent yesterday considering it was only their second or third game at this level. O'Grady in particular looks made for County football.

It would be obvious to Stevie Wonder that defensively is where all our troubles manifest. O'Grady was the exception. As much as Mick Foley is one of my favourite players he is having a mare at the moment. On a hot day in July he will get taken to the cleaners as he is a yard slower than a couple of years ago. Hank is also struggling. The dropped ball for the first goal was terrible and he stood off his man too much allowing scores. Pace is all important now for defenders. Letting your man get the ball first and standing him up is near impossible with the blackcard. You need to be there first most times.
I think the back three come Louth will be O'Grady, Kelly and Lyons.
The kickouts need sorting once and for all. It's to easy blaming Connolly when no one is making runs but it is also no good having to pull off numerous saves after your kick out is miss hit or not accurate.

A terrible defeat one which should never happened at any level never mind Intercounty. But it's done now and we have Dublin on the horizon.
The Kerry game will be the make or break match. Win that and we should be ok, lose it and today is going to look a whole lot worse.

Listened on radio, and must say am still annoyed. In terms of the bigger picture and all these new faces we are using as an excuse, being in Division One is vital and it's my honest belief we'll go down now, that game will be pinpointed as how survival got away and next year we'll be back playing Laois and Cavan and Roscommon instead of Dublin and Mayo and Cork. In terms of the actual game, people saying the defence is young and whatever else, that's a fine excuse if a guy is just fleeced by an old hand or whatever else, but there is absolutely no excuse for blowing up like that at the finish. If an under-14 team did it you'd have serious words and you don't need to have been a four time All Star to know that in such a situation you slow the game down, you foul, take the black card or yellow card late on, start a pushing match, whatever it takes to slow down the momentum of the opposition. That should have been done before the first goal, not doing it twice though... Well, they say not learning from your mistakes is a sign of a certain unwanted trait! (Again, I mean that in terms of footballing intelligence, not anything else.) If you told me before the game we'd only lose by one I'd say great effort, but things evolve and you've to base results on the situations that arise. We choked because of complete footballing thickness and it could cost us for several seasons to come in terms of our footballing development as I think Division One football year in, year out for the next three or four seasons given the age profile is as important as anything we do over the next few summers.

Agree with what your saying Tommy, however I don't think we'll be relegated. Also its not a just a Kildare thing, Ireland vs All Blacks in Nov, Munster vs Leicster, Padraig Harrington, Sonia O'Suillivan, Bernard Dunne etc etc

TommyKeegan wrote:

Listened on radio, and must say am still annoyed. In terms of the bigger picture and all these new faces we are using as an excuse, being in Division One is vital and it's my honest belief we'll go down now, that game will be pinpointed as how survival got away and next year we'll be back playing Laois and Cavan and Roscommon instead of Dublin and Mayo and Cork. In terms of the actual game, people saying the defence is young and whatever else, that's a fine excuse if a guy is just fleeced by an old hand or whatever else, but there is absolutely no excuse for blowing up like that at the finish. If an under-14 team did it you'd have serious words and you don't need to have been a four time All Star to know that in such a situation you slow the game down, you foul, take the black card or yellow card late on, start a pushing match, whatever it takes to slow down the momentum of the opposition. That should have been done before the first goal, not doing it twice though... Well, they say not learning from your mistakes is a sign of a certain unwanted trait! (Again, I mean that in terms of footballing intelligence, not anything else.) If you told me before the game we'd only lose by one I'd say great effort, but things evolve and you've to base results on the situations that arise. We choked because of complete footballing thickness and it could cost us for several seasons to come in terms of our footballing development as I think Division One football year in, year out for the next three or four seasons given the age profile is as important as anything we do over the next few summers.

Very pessimistic outlook Tommy. We have 4 games left, we have to win 2 of them to stay up. I think we can beat Westmeath and Kerry the way they're playing at the moment.

I have to agree with you about the footballing thickness/ruthlessness but I'm not sure why the emphasis on inexperience is being played up here. The players who were in the best position to prevent the 3rd goal were our most experienced players. We all know what Sean Cavanagh would have done in that situation.

There will be some lads squirming in their seats when the squad watch the video of the ending of that game and we have to hope lessons will be learnt and the same thing won't happen again later in the year if a similar situation arises.

The biggest ramification from yesterdays result is if we are relegate from Division 1.

We need 2 wins from our remaining 4 games to have any hope of survival.

Kerry at home is going to be the pivotal game, win that and we should be fine.