Kildare v Tyrone

Tom it's like you typed exactly what I was going to write. I have never been more annoyed coming away from a game as that today. Total capitulation in the last couple of minutes. We have a total lack of killer instinct. No idea how to close a game out and it's really starting to grate on me.

Apart from the players committing football suicide what was Ryan thinking changing half the team with injury time nearly upon us. That game was lost as much on the line as any player.

We are too nice as a set of supporters. Too understanding and willing to put defeats like today down to young players or inexperience. It is nonsense. Inexperience did not cost us that game. Brain dead decisions did. Something which we have done for years.

Lastly if Jason Ryan thinks by saying the word happy ten times after a defeat like that somehow puts a positive spin on it then he'll not be around long.

Totally disagree tomoneillandhissisterann, we defended better than they did for 69 minutes, 2 individual errors coughed up the first two goals, against a lesser team you'd have maybe got away with it, The last goal was just freakish.

We now have a few decent forwards who are not afraid to have a go, full back line are still suspect, Hugh has not started the year well which is a worry. Conway is very good at standing lads up but lacks a little pace when turned. Hopefully Kelly, Lyons and Doyle won't be out for long as I think there is still 2 defensive spots up for grabs. Around the middle we did very well with a combination of Moolick, Hurley and White. Half forwards were good, Flaherty played his best game to date, McNally has surprised me this year, has been very good as well buts lacks a bit of stamina but I'm sure that will be worked on. Brophy was quite by his high standards but would be concerned that he is getting a bit predictable as he seemed reluctant to use his left side and the better defenders will cop that. O Connor did well today with ball that was PASSED in for a change as for Mulhall I think he has been our best find if that is what you could call it, all off that is in my humble opinion of course.

I'd suggest some of you take up knitting or something if you can't find anything good to say after that performance. It's a wonder any of those lads have the balls to run out in Conleths with the level of abuse from the know alls on the ditch. It seems to be bred into the Kildare supporter judging by the teenager beside me who griped and moaned with the usual "ah let it in ffs" all through the 70 minutes. That on the day when we did more "lettin' it in" than I think I've seen in nearly 40 years going. I'm as gutted as anyone we lost and it's a real battle now to stay in Division One but Christ almighty let's give young lads some due.

In terms of constructive criticism the negatives for me today were short kick outs by Connolly when we were lording it on the longer Tyrone ones, Foley and McGrillen off the pace again in the full back line, and as someone else said our subs had minimal impact compared to theirs. But we've a number of players to come back in that will increase options : JD, N and P Kelly, Leper, Daniel Flynn it seems, Smith.

And yes we probably were too nice in injury time - agreed.

Rex I would gladly take the one point defeat in the manner in which we were defeated if I thought for one millisecond that we will learn from the experience.

However I am waiting for Kildare teams to learn from their mistakes for a long long time.
Being in a winning position and not winning has been a trade mark of Kildare teams for the last 3 decades that I have been following them.

Also far to often we are willing to lay the blame on the manager.

Harsh as it may sound I really do not believe our players have the mentality or temperament to compete at the top. I'm not sure if Jason Ryan or any manager can change it now, possibly it has to come from the ground up

And just to make matters worse Laochra Gael is on TG4 about Larry Tompkins.

Sorry Crofter, if you don't like calling it like it is. Moral victories and playing well then losing at the death do no  one any good. If you are happy with today. fair enough that's your prerogative. I'm not and I'm entitled to say it.
As for giving abuse, I never heard any one near me say anything derogatory and they gave as much support as possible.


Just seen the last goal. Shambles is the word for it. Flynn and Cribben both had easy chances  to pull the Tyrone man down. Then McGrillen and Connolly jump together and get in each others way allowing the ball to loop over their heads. Like I said no Killer instinct.

No matter how disappointed I am I'll still head to Croke Park next week hoping the squad have learned their lesson.

I couldn’t believe it. At 1-21 to 1-16 went out for a bucket of turf, I was getting ready to get watch the deferred showing on TG4, and when I came in about three minutes later we had lost 1-21 to 3-16..

Now after watching the match on TG4 I feel a bit less shocked (I suppose is the word) and a bit more optimistic. In my opinion Kildare played well overall, for me Cribben and Hurley were outstanding. we missed a couple of points which I suppose happens every match and while hats off to Tyrone for their second goal which was well taken, there was a touch of the fluke about the third. I though the ref could have blown for a foot block. The block, to me anyway, caused the ball to skew and caught the goalie out. No way back for Kildare after that.

The important thing is that the team don’t get disheartened after a loss like that, and they don’t lose focus for Saturday’s match v Dublin. Retaining Division 1 status is important, and to me is one of the main objectives of any footballing year.

Rex wrote:

Sorry Crofter, if you don't like calling it like it is. Moral victories and playing well then losing at the death do no  one any good. If you are happy with today. fair enough that's your prerogative. I'm not and I'm entitled to say it.
As for giving abuse, I never heard any one near me say anything derogatory and they gave as much support as possible.


Just seen the last goal. Shambles is the word for it. Flynn and Cribben both had easy chances  to pull the Tyrone man down. Then McGrillen and Connolly jump together and get in each others way allowing the ball to loop over their heads. Like I said no Killer instinct.

No matter how disappointed I am I'll still head to Croke Park next week hoping the squad have learned their lesson.

So NOT the manager's fault then.

Crofter wrote:

And yes we probably were too nice in injury time - agreed.

Isn't that really the nub of the matter Crofter!
That and the suicidal raft of substitutions ...
I'm simply saying - we're five points up in a match a lot of us had expected to lose; we're playing a team that has beaten us more often than not of late; we're badly in need of the win to stay afloat; we're playing a game where we've stifled the opposition; we're almost there -  and then we start substituting. Against a far lesser team that MIGHT be considered but not against a top team in Division one. What was the point?
And, again, I'll say what I've said before - the defending was inept.
And that's being polite.
Maturity is the recognition of what's happening and the ability to deal with it.
That doesn't come just with age, it's an innate gift in a footballer.
We didn't have it in the under-21s last year, we didn't have it today when it was needed (and that's the only time it's required).
A team goes from five up to two up. They've just conceded a goal. There's a minute (less actually) left.
You take down the advancing player, take your black card, the clock ticks, the attacking team can take a point or go for a goal but you're defending a set piece in numbers from a dead ball situation rather than having opponents running at and through you. And if you need to take another black card, you take it.
And if the last goal had an element of freakery, there were at least two other chances that Tyrone should/ could have taken in the second half.
And then there were the missed Kildare points?
I'm not trying to do anyone down but I thought today was a particularly self-destructive day because the game was (virtually) won and the losing came from silly decisions on and off the field.
The fact is, neither Jason Ryan nor the Kildare players, are inexperienced in managing/playing in serious matches, either at senior or under-21 level. Many of these players have Leinster medals. As Pete Seeger said: "When will they ever learn."
Ogie, the fault of manager and players - which is probably even more alarming!

i know this might sound like sour grapes but tyrone man took 14 steps for 2nd goal ref was in front of him that's scandalous from any ref at any standard

As much his fault, but since he was not on the pitch I never mentioned him. I expected that was obvious. Since you were not there I'll run through it. Team was doing what it needed to do. 90 seconds to go five points up all good. Then he brings in four subs. This obviously causes some issues as we conceded two goals in the next sixty seconds. Why completely alter the team that late. He tried to run the clock down and it backfired. He must accept partial responsibility.

inexile wrote:

I couldn’t believe it. At 1-21 to 1-16 went out for a bucket of turf,  I was getting ready to get watch the deferred showing on TG4, and when I came in about three minutes later we had lost 1-21 to 3-16..

Now after watching the match on TG4 I feel a bit less shocked (I suppose is the word) and a bit more optimistic. In my opinion Kildare played well overall, for me Cribben and Hurley were outstanding. we missed a couple of points which I suppose happens every match and while hats off to Tyrone for their second goal which was well taken, there was a touch of the fluke about the third. I though the ref could have blown for a foot block. The block, to me anyway, caused the ball to skew and caught the goalie out. No way back for Kildare after that.

The important thing is that the team don’t get disheartened after a loss like that, and they don’t lose focus for Saturday’s match v Dublin.  Retaining Division 1 status is important, and to me is one of the main objectives of any footballing year.

They'll get pretty downhearted being judged on 1 minute versus 70 on here but look, everyone is entitled to their view as Rex rightly points out and I get as frustrated as anyone when we lose like that. I just thought we have showed a lot of positive aspects to our play this season while acknowledging we've lost 2 out of 3 so no surprise at the disgruntlement. I don't expect them to beat the Dubs next week but I guess they're going to be judged on whether they do or not judging by the comments earlier. I'd like to see us as competitive as we have been against Mayo and Tyrone (I didn't see Cork match but sounded like we weren't at the races).

Listen for 69 minutes they beat Tyrone up a stick. But the end result is all that matters. You don't get extra points for good football. Up to 90 seconds to go we were excellent no doubt. A joy to watch at times but all that good work was for nothing.
When I sit down and watch the match in full again I probably see more positives than I do now.
What it has done is eased my fears a little that we were in for another beating from Dublin. We might give them a game now.

The one obvious positive from today was our fitness. We seem to have got a bit of zip back and kept going. It was the top six inches that let us down in the end.

tomoneillandhissisteranne wrote:

Crofter wrote:

And yes we probably were too nice in injury time - agreed.

Isn't that really the nub of the matter Crofter!
That and the suicidal raft of substitutions ...
I'm simply saying - we're five points up in a match a lot of us had expected to lose; we're playing a team that has beaten us more often than not of late; we're badly in need of the win to stay afloat; we're playing a game where we've stifled the opposition; we're almost there -  and then we start substituting. Against a far lesser team that MIGHT be considered but not against a top team in Division one. What was the point?
And, again, I'll say what I've said before - the defending was inept.
And that's being polite.
Maturity is the recognition of what's happening and the ability to deal with it.
That doesn't come just with age, it's an innate gift in a footballer.
We didn't have it in the under-21s last year, we didn't have it today when it was needed (and that's the only time it's required).
A team goes from five up to two up. They've just conceded a goal. There's a minute (less actually) left.
You take down the advancing player, take your black card, the clock ticks, the attacking team can take a point or go for a goal but you're defending a set piece in numbers from a dead ball situation rather than having opponents running at and through you. And if you need to take another black card, you take it.
And if the last goal had an element of freakery, there were at least two other chances that Tyrone should/ could have taken in the second half.
And then there were the missed Kildare points?
I'm not trying to do anyone down but I thought today was a particularly self-destructive day because the game was (virtually) won and the losing came from silly decisions on and off the field.
The fact is, neither Jason Ryan nor the Kildare players, are inexperienced in managing/playing in serious matches, either at senior or under-21 level. Many of these players have Leinster medals. As Pete Seeger said: "When will they ever learn."
Ogie, the fault of manager and players - which is probably even more alarming!

I'm not sure that's the nub of it as the game is more complex than that. There's definitely an issue with the Kildare footballing psyche for sure but slagging what is a group of kids is not going to help much. But at least you're brave enough to "call it as it is" - fair play.
On the subs, I was a bit perplexed at some of those also. Dowling for Mulhall was the most perplexing - Dowling never seems to lift his head and look for a teammate - and even as a fan of Fogarty I would even say taking off TO'C was a little strange too with 15 minutes to go.

Rex wrote:

Listen for 69 minutes they beat Tyrone up a stick. But the end result is all that matters. You don't get extra points for good football. Up to 90 seconds to go we were excellent no doubt. A joy to watch at times but all that good work was for nothing.
When I sit down and watch the match in full again I probably see more positives than I do now.
What it has done is eased my fears a little that we were in for another beating from Dublin. We might give them a game now.

The one obvious positive from today was our fitness. We seem to have got a bit of zip back and kept going. It was the top six inches that let us down in the end.

You didn't see our point scoring or midfield display as obvious positives? Just curious.

Our point taking is decent, but we missed as many as we scored. The midfield did really well today. Breaking ball was owned by us with Murnaghan playing great stuff. Brophy won every ball bar one sent his way and big Tom was a beast. Flats was quiet, but McNally and Hurley let's that sideline to one side were both very good
Harte had to move Cavanagh off Cribben as he was subduing him which is a good sign.
As I said I'll need to sit and watch it again and will probably feel a bit better then.

Have followed and enjoyed this forum since it's inception but never felt inclined to register...until now ! Just in case i'm mistaken for a "Johnny come lately" i have followed the Lillies for 51 years and counting. Even though today's result was gut wrenching i thought the application, fitness and quality of point taking was fantastic by the lads. If we had to abide by the doom mongers after Kieran leaving last year, we were in for a plunge down to the depths of division 4. We were 2 and a half minutes away from a 5 point win against a top team who always take the league seriously. We scored points today the likes that i thought i would never see Kildare score again. Don't get me wrong i have total respect for Kieran but i honestly think the forwards under his guidance were not following their natural instincts to shoot but were afraid to miss, hold up the play and eventually lose the chance. Ask yourself how many times do you remember over the last number of years shouting... shoot ! Anyway, sorry for the rant, but i definitely think we have cause for optimism. I think for the sake of this young team's progress we need to be playing Div 1 so hopefully we get the 2 wins we need. P.S. I think i came out of St Conleth's today more shell-shocked than Croker in '98 !!!

The reaction next weekend is what's important now. If Kildare can haul themselves off the canvass after two sucker punches and give Dublin a right game of it on Saturday night then it will set us up well for the rest of the year.

again today they kickouts were poor and the kildare forwards let tyrone goalkeeper comeout from his goals unchallenge and set up 1-2 in scores and we missed some easy scores in front goals, o connor must start every game

The reality is we were mugged today. The players did so well in the last 10 mins to move 5 clear and must have felt they had done enough to win. Then a suicidal back pass brought the deficit down to 2 and you didn't have to be Einstein to know that Tyrone had to go for another goal. We panicked and still tried to play football when we should have done a Cavanagh and closed out the game.
It was a very harsh lesson to learn but we outplayed the form team of the year so far with a very young team. Compare that to the inept and lifeless displays against the same opposition last year in Conleths and see how far we have come. With the 2 Doyles, the 2 Kellys and the 2 Flynns still to come back we will have far more options of the bench.
I am convinced we can beat Kerry and Westmeath to retain Div 1 status and am confident of a decent championship.
ps Anyone thinking that Fogarty offers more than O'Connor might have a rethink after today.

Listening to Tommy Carr's comments on Radio 1. God he's an irritating yoke.

Should have been home and hosed at half time. Full back line was somewhat exposed and were poor. Worrying to see how mc grillen and foley reacted without the mc geeney sweeper in place. Foley will get cleaned out in croke park on hard ground. Sooner the better Kelly is back. At one stage in the first half mc grillen backed right off allowing tyrone no 11 shoot from inside the 14 - luckily he put it over!!.

Hurley was MOM for me until that silly side-line ball. Not sure what he was thinking. I think he won more clean ball than chalkie and moolick together from no 12. Seems to be getting fitter too.

Mc Nally worked himself to a standstill. The chasing back he did in the first half was unreal. Mulhall varied from excellent to average at various stages of the game. Couple of good scores from Brophy.

Subs didn't help massively when they came on.

The ref did us no harm until he allowed ur man take 10 steps for the late goal.

Anyway we need to learn from this and move on

I thought the ref was shite tbh, all though liked him when he pulled a tyrone free back when they were clean through on goal.

murof wrote:

The reality is we were mugged today. The players did so well in the last 10 mins to move 5 clear and must have felt they had done enough to win. Then a suicidal back pass brought the deficit down to 2 and you didn't have to be Einstein to know that Tyrone had to go for another goal. We panicked and still tried to play football when we should have done a Cavanagh and closed out the game.
It was a very harsh lesson to learn but we outplayed the form team of the year so far with a very young team. Compare that to the inept and lifeless displays against the same opposition last year in Conleths and see how far we have come. With the 2 Doyles, the 2 Kellys and the 2 Flynns still to come back we will have far more options of the bench.
I am convinced we can beat Kerry and Westmeath to retain Div 1 status and am confident of a decent championship.
ps Anyone thinking that Fogarty offers more than O'Connor might have a rethink after today.

To your last point, as the main proponent of Fogarty over TOC, yes I am having a re-think of sorts although I still think Fogarty has much to offer, particularly scoring potential. Good to have options.

jw1888 wrote:

I thought the ref was shite tbh, all though liked him when he pulled a tyrone free back when they were clean through on goal.

Ref wasn't a problem today. Another ref would have yellow carded Harte and it was a harsh enough black. McGrillen could have gone the same way for a similar foul. Donnelly probably did take too many steps but was also foot blocked so would have been a penalty. Think ref overall was pretty decent as refs go.