How will county board reduce debt ?

id agree fionn 200,000 is managable a few adjustments should put us back in the green whereas mayo will need dramatic changes to get 11million in the green, for the joys of us being a competitive county again and serious contenders for leinster and all ireland titles i think most fans would gladly pay a little extra to cover that 200,000

Lads I think some of you are getting confused here. The debt is not €200k. That's just the excess of spending over income last year alone (1 year). The cummulative debt is over €2m. (Approx. €1.5m to the banks and the balance to other creditors).

Yes we need to come up with ideas for increasing our income in order to pay off those liabilities but we also need to cut the spending dramatically. An annual shortfall of €200k to meet the day to day expenses is completely unsustainable.

I understand budgets are to be put in place for each team in 2012 which will be monitored continuously. The Co. Board are also set to meet Clubs in late January / early February in a separate meeting to discuss this whole area.

I've a good idea to save a few bob. Pull the senior team out of all competations. They seem to the ones that cost all the money.

Fear An Geata wrote:

Lads I think some of you are getting confused here. The debt is not €200k. That's just the excess of spending over income last year alone (1 year). The cummulative debt is over €2m. (Approx. €1.5m to the banks and the balance to other creditors).

Yes we need to come up with ideas for increasing our income in order to pay off those liabilities but we also need to cut the spending dramatically. An annual shortfall of €200k to meet the day to day expenses is completely unsustainable.

I understand budgets are to be put in place for each team in 2012 which will be monitored continuously. The Co. Board are also set to meet Clubs in late January / early February in a separate meeting to discuss this whole area.

Fear an Geata would I be right in saying that some of that €1.5million is owed to banks is a result of Hawkfield?

fionnmccool wrote:

Fear An Geata wrote:

Lads I think some of you are getting confused here. The debt is not €200k. That's just the excess of spending over income last year alone (1 year). The cummulative debt is over €2m. (Approx. €1.5m to the banks and the balance to other creditors).

Yes we need to come up with ideas for increasing our income in order to pay off those liabilities but we also need to cut the spending dramatically. An annual shortfall of €200k to meet the day to day expenses is completely unsustainable.

I understand budgets are to be put in place for each team in 2012 which will be monitored continuously. The Co. Board are also set to meet Clubs in late January / early February in a separate meeting to discuss this whole area.

Fear an Geata would I be right in saying that some of that €1.5million is owed to banks is a result of Hawkfield?

Not sure but I think there was a shortfall of about €1m for Hawkfield after grants received etc.

Not too well in the know when it comes to expenses and rates and whether or stewards get paid (which shouldn't be happening if it is), so not going to get bogged down in those debates.

It's easy to say that guys are getting too much money, and that costs need to be cut, but unless we actually know for sure what money is going where, and for what purposes then we can't exactly say where these cuts can be made.

fone wrote:

u what about each kildare player has to rise 3.000 euro again this year? is that taken money from club

Botch wrote:

The debt problem is serious. WE all know the clubs are under pressure as it is to run themselves. And although there wil be loads of ideas there is bound to be one that will hit the club for more money in some way.

On teh kildare players and raising their own hoilday money. That is true but let me say this. It is encouraged that the players club support him and run something to take in some money for these funds. Even thought the player is looking for the money himself teh club is EXPECTED to contribute in some form. FACT. So the clubs are getting hit.

The players do a huge amount of fundraising during the year, their clubs often help out with this, despite many of them being strapped for cash themselves. I wouldn't see this as the county players or team taking money away from the clubs though, many people would quite happily support a fundraiser to help a player raise this money, altough it's bound to be a bit trickier if a club has a few players on the county panel.

There's a big difference between a club giving a guy a hand when it comes to setting up a fundraiser and advertising it, and a club actually giving up money directly to the player.

Regarding Hawkfield well I'd be hoping that most of the costs relating to construction are almost paid off by now, if a loan was sourcd to help pick up the shortfall after the grants then surely this would have been secured at a decent rate over a few years? The costs incurred by Hawkfield, in theory should fall over the coming years with the exception of maintenance I hope.

In terms of generating income then obviously Club Kildare is the big one here. New membership options, students, unemployed etc might be a good way of getting a few extra people to sign up.

The shop in Whitewater has a decent selection of stock, and some of the new product lines by O'Neills are pretty good too. This should at least help increase income over the Christmas period and hopefully over the coming year. On top of this though I still think a few new lines of merchandise are needed, different t-shirts for example (aside from the O'Neills polo shirts and "Geezers on fire" ones) might appeal to people who wouldn't be in position to pay 50 or 60 quid for a jersey or jumper, while things like calendars, school bags etc might also be an idea.

Does anybody know if the figures released for this year are inclusive of gate receipts received from Croke Park for championship matches? Wasn't the amount we got last year released pretty late in the year too?

A few changes here and there will help cut down on the €200,000, but I think we need to give revenues and expenditures the same level of priority here, plenty of people are talking about reducing expenses and the likes but the need to try increase revenues is just as great.

I'd guess that a lot of the county boards around the country have had years where they've been in the red in recent times, whether or not they've come into the black is a different matter. Waterford are €120,000 down on this year and we all know the story in Mayo, I'd like to think we're in a better position than both of them (no disrespect) to turn this around.

if_in_doubt

I see you also throw in a little slur on the VOLUNTEER STEWARDS

THEY DO NOT GET PAID

and, no, I have never been a steward !!!!

So feel free to debate the issue buy stick to the facts.

I'm not sure what figures, if any Kathleen "released" but the Accounts are not usually released much before Convention. They are fairly comprehensive but one old failing: Club delegates seldom bring them back to a Club meeting thus "ordinary" members seldom see them !!!!

kelf wrote:

if_in_doubt

I see you also throw in a little slur on the VOLUNTEER STEWARDS

THEY DO NOT GET PAID

and, no, I have never been a steward !!!!

So feel free to debate the issue buy stick to the facts.

I'm not sure what figures, if any Kathleen "released" but the Accounts are not usually released much before Convention. They are fairly comprehensive but one old failing: Club delegates seldom bring them back to a Club meeting thus "ordinary" members seldom see them !!!!

Fair enough, wasn't meant as a slur on the volunteers so apologies if that's how it came across, just believe that IF it has / does / ever happen, it should be stopped. Have heard of it happening in other counties in the past so wouldn't know what to believe to be fact or not with some of the suggestions being put about on here.

stewards do not get paid

do the people on the gate collecting the money get paid? are they stewards?

centreback



Volunteer to do it & you'll find out very soon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Top post if_in _doubt. I agree 100% about being in a position to work our way out. The Counties demographics are a huge advantage over others. The way the economy is and the lack of employment, Counties like Kildare and Meath will get stronger in my view. They have the Urban center close by and have a huge populations as it is, something that will only increase if the economy continues to falter. The County will act along with Dublin like a vacuum, sucking in new players from newly settled families increasing the player numbers for clubs

Western Counties and the likes of West Kerry, and Donegal have already been hit hard by emigration. That trend will only continue in the medium term future.
Kildare, if managed properly could set themselves up as a very influential County both financially on and off the playing field. We have a lot going for us, sometimes we don't realise it. If the right people can influence the direction we take I expect us to have a bright future.
If that €200,000 is reduced or paid off we will then have as much funds to do with as we need.

I'll add a caveat to this, we need a successful county team to make the most of the money that could be generated. We all know the Clubs are the life blood but the County team gives the profile for National exposure. A successful county will raise all boats Clubs included. Its like the economy, you can't get out of a recession with austerity, you need to spend money to make money.

Spot on Rex

Just for the many of you (most of you?) that weren't at convention. Amazed there's no threat on what Aldridge said about Ashe's resignation - will try to start one if I get a chance later.

http://www.daraghoconchuir.ie/blog.php?id=1583

http://www.daraghoconchuir.ie/blog.php?id=1582


It's simple. Costs must be cut and fundraising must improve significantly. It's something the county has been very bad it. I'm not sure about raising a million quid, are those people out there? And we don't know yet what they're going to be offered for it. Will it be like a Golden Circle Club Kildare membership?

200,000 of a debt doesn't sound bad, but that was this year. It's the fourth successive year of debt and that's obviously where the Indo article gets the half a million because that's the cash debt referred to by the auditor on Saturday night. So that article is accurate in that regard anyway.

From what I can gather, getting a half a million loan will only tide things over. It won't stop us losing another 200,000 next year. It's bizarre that people are looking at steward's expenses (sandwich and cup of tea). Even if they were getting 30 quid, my God, they'd deserve it and for a lad who's never done a day's volunteering to suggest that this, rather than, let's say, the €750,000 in team expenses could be pared down is just insane.

Yes teh players raise money themselves and fair play to them. But you're hitting the same people all the time. No more than the country, sound financial structures have to be in place.

Hopefully Marty McEvoy's million euro plan will work and that, allied with a reduction in costs will help turn things around. But we need to continue the fundraising for the good of the entire county. I can't see the clubs being able to provide anymore in levies as they're already being hit. Hopefully McEvoy, McCreevy, McManus, Kelly and co can provide a regular stream of revenue.

Not saying we do this, but out of curiosity and hypothetically, what if a county couldn't pay back its debts? More likely in the case of somewhere like Mayo. Remember talking to clubs that were on the brink around the country after getting caught out in property bubble and there was talk of the GAA stepping in because a club can't really go bust. Well, a county definitely can't go bust so if a county said we can't afford to pay, surely the GAA pays up for them when there are no other options?

TommyKeegan

what u mean by The "GAA " in "surelt the GAA pays up" :

My definition of the GAA starts with its members and clubs but I suspect u are referring to Central or Leinster Council. Members are the club, clubs are the County Board

Why in the name of.............. should Central Council pay the debths of Counties or Clubs. Debths in a County are for Clubs & members in the County to sort.
Marty seems to have made a start on the fund raising, lets hope the finincial control/budgets mentioned work as well

kelf wrote:

TommyKeegan

what u mean by The "GAA " in "surelt the GAA pays up" :

My definition of the GAA starts with its members and clubs but I suspect u are referring to Central or Leinster Council. Members are the club, clubs are the County Board

Why in the name of.............. should Central Council pay the debths of Counties or Clubs. Debths in a County are for Clubs & members in the County to sort.
Marty seems to have made a start on the fund raising, lets hope the finincial control/budgets mentioned work as well

kelf

Why in the name of.............. do you repeatedly put a 'h' on the the end of the word 'debt'....Please stop.

He's plumbing the debths of linguistic depravity.....................................anyone? anyone?

I mean if Kildare can't afford to keep going and clubs can't afford to keep county board going because they don't have the finances, and creditors come looking for their cash, what will the GAA do? Let the bank repossess Kildare GAA? Course not, the GAA have plenty of money in the bank, do they not come to the rescue. And by the GAA I mean the upper sector based in Croke Park who own the bank account.

well one very simple way to cut the debt is not to pay McGeeney and his management team as much as they do and anyone that is not living in cloud cuckoo land knows this is where most of the money is going.
On the flip side if you do this you probably lose Mcgeeney and dont have as good a killdare senior team.

And I did start by saying it's hypothetical and we shouldn't and won't, just curious what would happen if a county was declared bankrupt...

RGB

I can’t spell but can do an argument (even when I'm wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

TK you wouldn't be a former banker by any chance ??

TommyKeegan wrote:

I mean if Kildare can't afford to keep going and clubs can't afford to keep county board going because they don't have the finances, and creditors come looking for their cash, what will the GAA do? Let the bank repossess Kildare GAA? Course not, the GAA have plenty of money in the bank, do they not come to the rescue. And by the GAA I mean the upper sector based in Croke Park who own the bank account.

Possibly take Conleth's or Hawkfield off us? No idea how that would work really as any debt we'd have wouldn't be worth as much as those two properties would it? If clubs are in debt then surely their own banks would eventually come looking for money too, where they'd get it from is anyones guess, deeds to pitches and clubhouses?

Would there be some sort of sanctions from Croke Park in terms off the GAA getting a say in where any money we had went, ie money for the senior team, development officers etc taken off us to pay off part of the debt.

If a county did declare bankruptcy and the GAA did come to the rescue then surely other counties around the country would follow suit and get away with it too. Massive can of worms opened if this happened in Kildare or elsewhere.

As far as I'm aware any loan that Kildare GAA would have got from any bank would have had to have been approved by the Leinster Council and or Croke Park.

I'm Open to correction on this but I believe that in giving their permission to seek the loan and draw down the funds from the the bank the GAA then become a guarantor on the loan or in part have some sort of part to play in it.

There is a lot of procedures to follow in order to secure a loan from a Bank if your a GAA club or County.

Sometimes individuals within the club go guarantor on a loan in order to get the funds from the bank, doing so in full knowledge that the club/county will always be able to meet the repayments.
As far as I'm aware the bank cannot go after you personally for the liability however.

Trustee's have to be appointed to the loan, so they sign for the loan stating that the club accounts provided to the bank upon securing the load are correct and that everything that the club is saying in order to get the loan is truthful. The trustee are not however liable for the debt of the Loan in any way.

Kildare going bankrupt is not going to happen TK and to even suggest that is absolute nonsense.
Kildare GAA is a non profit organisation, i'm not even sure if it can declare bankruptcy.
They can claim insolvency i believe which is different.


The assets that the Kildare County Board have at the moment are far ahead of their current liabilites.

If they are having difficulty in repaying their debts, they can ask for a restructure of the payments firstly. If they have missed a number of payments and are in arrears then they could organize a fundraiser to purely clear those arrears.

If the worse case scenario comes, then they can look to sell assets in order to clear off the loan.
Other than that, if they cannot meet the loan repayments then whatever asset the loan was secured on simply give it back to the bank and or Nama.

But all of this is so far down the line and will never happen as it will never get to this stage. But in fairness asking about Kildare GAA going bankrupt I suppose is not that sensational for some of the stuff you come up with.