Derry v Kildare

Think that's Dungiven's ground just down road. Picture here of where we are playing. Plenty of room in that stand for what'll be making the trip locally and from abroad.

http://www.hoganstand.com/county/derry/article/index/265179

For record I think there is no point changing team wholesale at this point, too late for that, might as well stick mostly, with a few alterations, to a humiliated group out and see if they've fight in them for selves and team, whatever about manager. And here's a weird one, I think we win by a few and suddenly have a soft draw in second round. By round three we will have deluded ourselves into thinking Super 8s could amazingly happen only to draw Tipperary and concede six goals.

Coldrick the ref for this one.. christ

kildaregaa365 wrote:

Coldrick the ref for this one.. christ

They could let Roli ref it, and there'd still be no guarantee they'd win

Well Poacher tried his best to ref the last one.

.. and the Kildare sideline let him, instead of leveling him the first time he set foot on the pitch.

fone wrote:

This time last year Kildare were top 8 team in Ireland  amazing how things turn around in 12 months .

There is no measurement by which you could say Kildare were top eight last year. Even if you did reach All-Ireland quarter-final, you couldn't claim that. Your standing is built over more than one year. My system is arbitrary but I would have had Kildare in the 8-14 bracket. The League didn't change that but last Sunday did if it were the end of the season. Have to see if there's a kick now.

flourman wrote:

.. and the Kildare sideline let him, instead of leveling him the first time he set foot on the pitch.

There's manliness and there's stupidity. Just ask Jason Forde. The place for the players to stand up to Carlow was on the pitch.

It depends on the context. I was present at Dublin-Meath saga in 91. Pat O'Neill was doing a bit of a Poacher, running on the pitch and throwing his weight around, and at one point Liam Hayes rightly knocked him back on his arse. These things can be important psychological indicators.

The main error I'm making, of course, is that Meath side was a proper football team, unlike the bunch of posers we currently have misrepresenting us.

Ogie wrote:

flourman wrote:

.. and the Kildare sideline let him, instead of leveling him the first time he set foot on the pitch.

There's manliness and there's stupidity. Just ask Jason Forde. The place for the players to stand up to Carlow was on the pitch.

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about Kildare's own "Maor Uisce" leveling Poacher with a shoulder - it would, at least, send the correct message to the players "We are not here to be fucked about by this lot".

It was good enough for the Waterford & Clare boys at the weekend, and it was good enough for Paddy Byrne in 2000.

It's a sad state of affairs when somebody has to show the players how to stand-up for themselves, and not to be bullied - but clearly they don't know how to for themselves.

Psychology is obviously a huge part of sport. Every single thing Kildare did on Sunday let Carlow know that they were successfully intimidating them.

I repeat: Carlow. Not Monaghan or Tyrone. CARLOW.

The more the week goes on the more it seems like it's rocketed to number one on the famously competitive Kildare Football Debacles Top 10.

HauntedGraffiti wrote:

It depends on the context. I was present at Dublin-Meath saga in 91. Pat O'Neill was doing a bit of a Poacher, running on the pitch and throwing his weight around, and at one point Liam Hayes rightly knocked him back on his arse. These things can be important psychological indicators.

The main error I'm making, of course, is that Meath side was a proper football team, unlike the bunch of posers we currently have misrepresenting us.

There is another issue there though. Billy Morgan is another example of a manager that had no problem 'interacting' with opposition players. The big issue, and difference, was that it was nearly 30 years ago. Did Hayes get a ban? No. Did Morgan? Actually, I can't remember - probably from his own county board because he was a pain in their ass. But now, you'd be nailed. You don't see that happening at all anymore. Now if Roli wanted to meet him an oul shoulder, that's another thing!

Players have plenty opportunities to lay down markers when the ball is breaking... and in other situations.

flourman wrote:

Ogie wrote:

flourman wrote:

.. and the Kildare sideline let him, instead of leveling him the first time he set foot on the pitch.

There's manliness and there's stupidity. Just ask Jason Forde. The place for the players to stand up to Carlow was on the pitch.

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about Kildare's own "Maor Uisce" leveling Poacher with a shoulder - it would, at least, send the correct message to the players "We are not here to be fucked about by this lot".

It was good enough for the Waterford & Clare boys at the weekend, and it was good enough for Paddy Byrne in 2000.

It's a sad state of affairs when somebody has to show the players how to stand-up for themselves, and not to be bullied - but clearly they don't know how to for themselves.

Yeah, I wouldn't be averse to one of the lads on the line if there was need, but listen, Poacher wasn't out on the pitch. I'm not sure what he was doing other than cheerleading. The boys on the pitch have plenty opportunities to lay down a marker. But I take the point that it's a little event that can set a tone, like Geezer with the Laois players before the game in Tullamore in 2010. The Waterford and Clare lads exchanged a few shoulders, nothing savage, a bit of a laugh really, very Irish. All done in the knowledge of everyone involved that no slap will be thrown and no damage incurred. Been in some pile of them - ideal for a man of my insignificant stature, making it look like I'm up for anything though I'd be useless if it all kicked off!

flourman wrote:

.. and the Kildare sideline let him, instead of leveling him the first time he set foot on the pitch.

No doubt if Roli 'levelled him' we would be here slating him and saying he would be better off concentrating on his own team.

Whatever about CON and the those who played I would never question Roli's commitment or 'will to win' with either club or county over the last 20 years.

The owenbeg pitch has been closed for all of this year due to drainage problem . it’s 4G pitch as well

Many may not like it or subscribe to it but Fermanagh showed today that a well drilled,  well coached team can be the sum of their parts.

Their tackling was outstanding today not to mention their commitment . It's something I alluded to in an earlier post.

We've tried Jason Ryan and Cian O Neill and tries to play a brand of football that was nice to watch but ultimately have nothing to show for it. It's time for us to look at proper alternatives.

And in that end I don't believe Johnny Earley Rainbow or Glen would be managemenr material for us at the moment. That's not to say any of them could not be part of a management set up . We need structured defence . We need real a proper defensive and tackling coaching.

We also need someone that's going to man us up.

Who knows. Maybe Malachy O Rourke will be available at years end

And Monaghan have now joined this snake pit.....

Is it management or team or combination? should not have lost against Armagh last year and this year in league, it was tight margins, a point here and there, Games that should have been won. O'Neil tried things and his rep is paying price. The players are not producing with county in the same manner as they do with club. I have seen them all play without county Jersey and it would be beg the question, is there no cohesion between both.

Fermanagh are no example to follow, at least not on the basis of yesterday's match. What did they score in the second half? They only won because of a last minute goal not because of some fantastic tactical innovation.

Cilldara_2000 wrote:

Fermanagh are no example to follow, at least not on the basis of yesterday's match. What did they score in the second half? They only won because of a last minute goal not because of some fantastic tactical innovation.

Terrible game to watch, but that's the way the game has gone. Hopefully the Super 8's will kick some life back into an ailing system.

As bad as things are at the moment I'm not sure if I would like to see Kildare set up to play like that, maybe I am just a 'dinosaur'.

Agreed. Football is pure muck atm. Hopefully we'll get a few good games in the super8s. In the mean time hurling is going from strength to strength. Two of the three televised games at the weekend were real top quality sport.

Another big shock with Monaghan losing.
Kerry and Galway don't do shocks.
Clifford, Geaney and O Donoghue, some FF line.

Don't subscribe to the 'football is muck' narrative myself. Some games are poor, some are excellent. Just as before. I remember going to see Cork get the shit kicked out of them by Kerry annually. I remember going to a Munster final that was 0-9 all - no sweepers. Just catch and kick and a load of ball given away and a load of wides. There were loads of games like that. And loads of one-sided games.

Now, defending is coached, your set up without the ball.

And the 'minnows' aren't taking their beating like good little boys, sure come out and play and we'll get 5-30. Fermanagh may not have scored their goal by any tactical innovation, but that's missing the point. They were still in the game, which man-to-man, they have no right to be. It wasn't pretty but you're entitled to do what you like within the rules (and outside it if you get away with it) to win a game. That has never changed from the days when the old heroes broke jaws off the ball and were hardy men, to sledging and sweepers.

I recall the 1987 football championship being dismissed as being one of the worst ever - and the next few years rivalry between Cork and Meath as being terrible for the game, such was the spite and dirt. In fact most years, the football is supposed to be in a bad place and people aren't going.

But there were 21,000 at the All-Ireland semi-final between Kerry and Monaghan in 1985 for example. Scoring averages are way up. Players are fitter, are much better at kicking points. The game has evolved. Of course it might not be how you like it and if you had more than one ref on the pitch, they could maybe look at having to have a minimum /maximum number of players in one half of a pitch. They tweak rules regularly in AFL if they feel things are getting too clogged in the middle or too defensive - but with professional coaches now, sport will always evolve.

I say all that as an absolute hurling snob but as someone who loved the Dublin-Donegal semi-final of a few years ago. But compare that to soccer - and I said that to someone who has travelled to a few games across the water and in Europe in my time - and there is no comparison for intensity and entertainment.

Sorry - no structure to that post at all, it's all over the place.

Anyway, it's all opinions I guess.

I agree 100 percent Ogie. There is way too much being made of the defensive styles. And I am honestly sick of the O'Rourke, Brolly & Spillane – RTE's continued use of them is nothing short of a disgrace. In fact, they are the single biggest asset Sky currently have.

Here are the facts: O'Rourke played against Cork in 1990 which remains by far the worst All Ireland final I have ever seen; Brolly was substituted - in tears – during an utterly dismal semi-final against Galway in 1998; Spillane played in countless utter farces for Kerry that make Dubs' current Leinster routs look like nerve-shredding cliffhangers.

So, please - shut up the three of you and stop talking rubbish (fat chance).

I agree the boys talk a lot of rubbish but I also feel the need to point out that O’Rourke is one of the very best forwards to have ever played the game.

O'Rourke is one of the greatest players I've seen, so too Spillane. Doesn't change the fact that they are hopelessly outdated as analysts.